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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by Stealth01
We got a good eighth-inch of ice here in the Springs yesterday, and since I had to pick up my daughter from work at midnight, I took my wife's CX-9. The road conditions were mostly icy or icy with snow on top, with a little snowpack in places. The 9 did well on snow, but not on ice or the ice-snow combination.

First off, I think MOST of the problems I had came from the stock all-season tires Mazda put on the 9. They did great on dry, on dirt, gravel, and water. But on icy roads, they left a LOT to be desired. It took some serious experimentation to get the thing to perform well on slippery roads.

Second, I am a VERY experienced snow- and ice-driver, growing up in upstate New York, and driving in places like Omaha, NE; Loring, ME; Tokyo, JA; Korea; and here. I've been driving in Colorado Springs for 10 years and I am very familiar with conditions and driving techniques appropriate to this area. So I was comfortable testing out the 9 on dangerous conditions last night.

Surprisingly, the 9 slides quite a bit, especially considering it's a 4400lb vehicle. It generally did well stopping, but not so well starting from a stop or taking turns, even at slow to moderate speeds. The sliding was never severe, and never was it bad enough that I felt in danger of losing control.

Starting from a stop was easiest when done in automatic tranny mode, allowing the ECU to handle the torque and NOT trying to do the shifting myself. In my 6, I do better on ice putting by it in manual mode and shifting quickly to 2nd to lower torque, but in the 9, the ECU does a better job than the driver can of controlling the 3.5L and the tranny. However, there was still significant slippage until I got to dry surface or snowpack. Once I hit snowpack, the AWD system did much better.

Also, the lag before the rear wheels gain power was noticeable, something I also did not expect. You can feel the fronts start to slip for about a half-second before the rears kick in. At that point, the vehicle rights itself in most circumstances, but that initial slipping was unexpected for me. I suspect much of this was because the vehicle has all season tires, not winter tires.

Slipping while moving was not as prevalent as it was in my 6, but it was significantly more noticeable than in my old Explorer 4WD with all-terrain tires, and surprised me at times last night. I took one turn-lane/merge at 10 mph, and STILL the back end slid considerably until I eased all the way off the gas and let it roll through the turn. I took one turn-lane merge at 10 mph, and STILL the back end slid considerably until I eased all the way off the gas and let it completely roll through the turn. This shocked me, because it seemed to slide like a much lighter vehicle. Again, I suspect this is more related to the all-season tires Mazda put on the vehicle. With winter tires, it might perform much better.

Alternately, stopping didn't seem to be nearly as much of a problem as starting or "drifting" while driving. I found that slipping the shifter into "M" mode allowed a smooth, nearly slide-free decrease in speed. There was often a little bit of tail drift just before reaching stop, again surprising me because of the weight of the 9. Even using just the brakes, stopping was easier than starting. The ABS system probably had a lot to do with that, since it kept the wheels rolling. After the trouble starting, I was pleasantly surprised with the 9's ability to stop on very slippery roads.

I did not put it through very stressful driving on these conditions. The roads were VERY dangerous and I didn't want to risk an accident. I did give it a bit more gas going up a gentle hill with no other traffic around, and I ended up learning exactly what it's like to drift in an AWD vehicle. This was on an icy surface covered in snow and blowing snow, and while I could tell the vehicle was slipping, it was also one of the 9's finer moments, as I could feel the AWD system fighting to get traction, which it did AS SOON as I let up on the gas.

Right now, I would give the CX-9 WITH THE STOCK TIRES a C on ice and a B+ on what little snow I found. With winter tires, I think it would rate MUCH higher. But winter tires are $135-$154 a pop on Tirerack.com, so that's not an easily-made investment.

Today, conditions are snowpacked, with ice underneath. And since we're supposed to get 10 inches of snow by tomorrow, I should have a chance to test the 9 in deeper snow. Based on what I saw last night, it should do well in snow, even with the A/S tires. Either way, I'll let everyone know how she drives after today's excursion to my daughter's work and to Autuzone.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by ZoomPrincess
You also need to remember that you could have the best snow tires in the world and you are not going to stop on a dime on ice. I had to pick up our son last night from day care and I was having the time of my life driving the CX-7, then this morning I took Pooh Bear to work, and never had any problems. I saw an Xterra come slidding out straight for me, but I didn't have any problems stopping. I LOVE this SUV.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by SpeedRacer
DUDE I WANT SNOW UP HERE!

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by GR-8
Your slipping problem sounds like the 8. fishtaling at low speeds on ice. I find that turning off DSC makes a big difference when taking off on ice but once you get going you have to turn it back on or youll end up some where you didn't intend to. Snow is a whole nother story. At least your able to get out and drive around somewhat safely. I'm sure Dan and everyone else in the springs are sitting at home crying cause they can't go anywhere.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by Stealth01
OK, we took it out again to run some errands, and it is definitely an issue with the tires. The 9 did better this time, with about 2 inches of snow on the ground, than it did earlier. Still a lot of sliding, and I definitely attribute that to the tires and the ice on the road. We slid down our driveway, and got stuck for a moment at the bottom. This was not a deep-snow stuck, but stuck because of ice under all four tires. A little gas in reverse and we were out in one try.

Again it handled stopping VERY well. I had no trouble stopping at any intersection, including a couple of downhill stops. So that's good.

The startups were a bit grabbier with the snow on the ground, but the 9 STILL drifted a little in turns and while driving. Again, this is, I think due to the tires performing poorly on ice. We went to turn into a parking space at King Soopers and instead the 9 went straight, even with wheels turned, at 5 mph. I stopped and was able to roll slowly into the space with the car in idle. When we got out, it was a wet-ice under our feet -- completely tractionless. I had hiking boots on and nearly fell. So the fact that it was able to STOP on it, even when it couldn't TURN on it is good again.

So I will say that the 9 is definitely at least a B+ in the snow. Not as good as my 86 S10 Blazer, which was a friggin A+ in the snow, but better than my 6 or the old MPV we had. Maybe even an A-, but I need some deep snow time before I know that, and with some winter tires, it would be even better. On ice, I still maintain that with the stock tires, this vehicle is a C on ice. The Dueler H/Ls get horrible reviews just about everywhere I looked, and definitely aren't what I would recommend for icy conditions.

Oh, and one side note -- the Sport model doesn't come with fog lights, so we were left using just the headlights in the fog last night and today. It is DIFFICULT to see with the stock headlights. Because they sit so high, almost all the light was reflected back at us. With foglights in that lower position, it would have been MUCH easier to see in the fog. That will likely be our first or second upgrade, along with snow tires.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by Stealth01
And one final update, we went out and about in the 9 tonight, with about 4 inches of snow on the road. Much snowpack and powder. In snow, the 9 is VERY GOOD. It still struggled a bit on the icy patches, fishtailing at 15 mph until I let off the gas. But in the snow itself, it started from a stop very well, stopped in a very nice distance, and held its grip nicely most of the time. I even went out alone on some very snowy back streets and gunned it a bit. The AWD gripped securely, and drift was pretty minimal.

So I'd say it's an A in the snow, and remains a C+ on ice, mostly due to the tires. Nice to get out and have some fun in the snow. It wasn't as grippy as my old 4WDs, but it was close.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by MazdaTom
Tires, tires, tires, tires. As you've eluded to, the tires play a huge role in winter performance.

I was out tonight with my Saturn VUE (2wd 5 speed manual 4 cylinder) and it has a set of Michelin X-Ice tires. Starting in first gear with the fairly torquey motor easily leads to wheel spin, but the other gears are fine- especially once you get moving. The real beauty in these tires are when it comes to stopping. I hit the brakes several times fairly hard while on snow pack and I could see my wife in the corner of my eye fly forward against her seatbelt. Usually followed by: "what the hell are you doing!?!?!?" AWESOME!

Plus these tires are wearing very well. This is their second winter and last winter they saw ALOT of dry roads (south central KS winters are all that bad) and 2 interstate trips on dry highways.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:14
by Stealth01
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MazdaTom @ Dec 8 2007, 09:04 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=13452]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Tires, tires, tires, tires. As you've eluded to, the tires play a huge role in winter performance.

I was out tonight with my Saturn VUE (2wd 5 speed manual 4 cylinder) and it has a set of Michelin X-Ice tires. Starting in first gear with the fairly torquey motor easily leads to wheel spin, but the other gears are fine- especially once you get moving. The real beauty in these tires are when it comes to stopping. I hit the brakes several times fairly hard while on snow pack and I could see my wife in the corner of my eye fly forward against her seatbelt. Usually followed by: "what the hell are you doing!?!?!?" AWESOME!

Plus these tires are wearing very well. This is their second winter and last winter they saw ALOT of dry roads (south central KS winters are all that bad) and 2 interstate trips on dry highways.[/b]


Yep, we will likely get snow tires for the 9 for next year. And for whatever car I'm driving. Hopefully, the NEW AWD 6. :)

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MazdaTom @ Dec 8 2007, 09:04 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=13452]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Tires, tires, tires, tires. As you've eluded to, the tires play a huge role in winter performance.[/b]


+1

Studded snow tires FTW!

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by AIM WO4
Yep. You can get tires that are better on ice, too. Those little siping cuts are made for ice as well as studs. I don't think studs are very practical for as little ice we have here. The dry days will kill them pretty quickly.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by MazdaTom
I have a set of Michelin X-Ice tires on my wife's VUE. They are going on their second season. They spent alot of time on dry roads last winter in KS and they are wearing great.

The sipes will also help to provide extra bite on snow as well as ice.

Supposedly, you can get a set of all-season tires siped and it will improve how long they last while providing better traction in snow and ice. The only disadvantage to doing that is that the rubber compound in an all-season tire won't stay as flexible in cold temps as a winter tire's rubber will.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by AIM WO4
I think winter tires have some sort of silica in the outer layer that helps provide traction. Once you wear down past that, the generic rubber will not provide that extra grip. I read this crap somewhere a while back.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by MazdaTom
I think that only applies to the Bridgestone Blizzack tires.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by AIM WO4
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MazdaTom @ Dec 11 2007, 10:49 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=13726]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
I think that only applies to the Bridgestone Blizzack tires.[/b]


That sounds familiar. Something like 55% of the outer surface of the tire... and the rest is typical winter rubber compound. I had Blizzacks on two of my Saabs.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14
by Stealth01
LOL, well she wants to use my $2000-$3000 bonus this spring for tires. She kinda forgot that if I am still in the 6 at that point, my bonus is my down payment on something new.

We'll save for winter tires, but she got her new car -- now it's time for MINE!