Next Car: 2015 GTI or 2015 WRX?

[Saul_Good]

Yeah, I really loved my previous GTI... I'm curious, what does your criteria consist of?

Oh you know....... Keeping a car long enough to justify future car parts purchases for it. :P

[roninsoldier83]

Oh you know....... Keeping a car long enough to justify future car parts purchases for it. :P

Zing!!

Well played, sir.

[roninsoldier83]

I really hate how my mind frequently walks a slippery slope.... I just end up with new ideas, like:

-Option 3: Save up a while longer (likely an extra ~6 months) and get the upcoming VW Golf R with a DSG. Best of both worlds: AWD + everything I love about the GTI. Problem solved.

^^^Then I come back to reality and realize how much extra cash that would involve throwing away on a depreciating object, and all the things I would prefer to spend my hard earned cash on. That idea quickly fades.

Drove the FoST in tonight's little snow flurry... made it up the driveway just fine, but it wasn't really accumulating. On my drive home, the front end of the car got squirrely a couple times- not overly confidence inspiring. But in reality, it got me home just fine.

On a related note, since buying the FoST, I've had several minor issues with the car. Way more than I should have on a brand new car (around ~5500 miles on her now). Issues include:

-Tonight in the cold, the throttle stuck slightly a couple times, causing unintended acceleration. Nothing massive (maybe 1-2mph before I caught it), but not confidence inspiring.
-The car came with two different colored headlights.... seriously.... quality control? What's that? See previous threads for photos...
-The Ford Sync system had had several glitches since taking ownership- namely being unresponsive for several seconds at a time.
-The engine has idle issues on almost a daily basis. It will stutter and feel like its going to die briefly for a fraction of a second before correcting itself- this happens without the AC/fan/heater on- so that's not the culprit. It almost feels like the coil packs might already be going bad?!? It's pretty well documented in the FoST community.
-Occasionally the car will have a random beeping from underneath the hood while the car is turned off.... I did a search and found that this is caused by an error in the sound composer system. Not a motor problem, but still, yet another glitch.
-The fuel door doesn't lock... I don't know if this is a "problem" or a design "feature"/oversight, but its no bueno. Every time the wife or one of the kids bumps it, it pops open.

^^^To say that I wouldn't keep this car outside of warranty is an understatement. None of these issues are huge "deal breakers" per se, but it all makes me very wary of the car's overall build quality.

And when I start thinking in terms of any sort of real longevity, the WRX starts looking more appealing than the GTI. Subaru's are known to be rattle prone, but they're generally pretty reliable machines, with relatively low maintenance costs. They're also tanks in the winter, and the 2015 WRX is a corner carver in the summer...

I started re-thinking the WRX's cons:

-Fuel economy. Covered above.... after searching for more real world numbers, it appears that they're generally within 1-2mpg of each other. Too close to really care.
-Slightly more expensive. With both of them setup the way I want them, the Subaru is about an extra $2000 more than the GTI... but the WRX has about an extra ~$1000 in markup that is easily negotiated away, making them only about $1000 apart.
-Sedan only. There are rumors that a hatch will be returning and big websites claiming they've seen the test mules: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/02/subaru-wrx-hatchback-spy-shots/
^^^If a hatch became available, this would be a huge leap forward for the WRX.
-Probably not the "better" overall daily driver. The WRX is louder and a bit rougher. And the base stereo really does suck. The rough part doesn't bother me. The loud part-debatable. The stereo is an easy problem to fix.
-Sideways hat wearing kids trying to race you at a light more often. The new WRX is more "grown up" than the old one, so maybe I'm wrong? Although I frequently drive the wife's 2013 WRX, and I can't tell you how many times we've had people try to race us... Granted, she got the factory option SPT exhaust (it sounds pretty good), so that doesn't help, but still. Maybe the new one won't have that problem since its a bit less boy racer than the older ones?

One more Pro that I neglected to mention for the WRX: the ability to go ice racing up at Georgetown Lake! I went a couple times back when I had my old STI and it was just about the most fun you can have on 4 wheels! It's also dirt cheap and you can't hardly break anything! Granted, its a VERY minor point that's hardly worth mentioning, but it's something.

^^^The practical part of me says the AWD Japanese car is the better choice.... as I realize the German VW that is made in Mexico might be more issue prone and less confidence inspiring in the winter. And the reality is: they're both great cars and a riot to drive!

As of right now, I think I'm leaning towards the WRX.... but give me 10 minutes and I'm sure I'll change my mind.

[I`m Batman]

The reason I'd go with the Subie is because of VW maintenance issues and cost. (But you'll be under warranty, so you'll be OK for awhile) We had VW in the past, luckily we didn't have too many issues with it (but much more when compared to other cars that I've owned). But when it did have issues, it's not something that you can easily DIY and the cost of repairs are higher than Japanese or American cars. They are great cars... when they run and have no other problems. I'm used to cars that just require fluid changes and routine maintenance to keep it running reliably. I would never buy another VW. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Subie.

Our cars buying preference might be different since I tends to buy cars with cash, no financing, and planned to keep them for a very long time. If you only want to keep it for a couple of years then reliability is a nonissue since the car will be under warranty until you get the next one.

[Huzer]

Bummer about the issues you've had. I have the sound symposer beeping, but it's usually only after a quick move (driveway to garage type thing). I haven't had any of the other problems, although quite justifying replacing your car! Haha.

If I remember, warranty is 3/36 for Ford for bumper to bumper, powertrain is 5/60. For both counts, I'll hit the year limit rather than mileage. Of course, if I have the car that long, it'll be a minor miracle. The last vehicle I owned 3+ yrs was my Yukon, and that was 14 years ago. I'm REALLY trying to keep something longer for a change, although I said the same thing about the Tundra.

[Saul_Good]

I'm still a honda boy. How about that Acura TL AWD? If I was a baller like you, I'd personally get an Acura ILX or Civic SI and 2 sets of wheels (snow and a/s).

Oh and I'd keep it for >2yrs :P

[roninsoldier83]

The reason I'd go with the Subie is because of VW maintenance issues and cost....

...If you only want to keep it for a couple of years then reliability is a nonissue since the car will be under warranty until you get the next one.

Very valid points. In truth, I planned on keeping the Focus ST only very short term before I bought it. For the price, it was just a car that would help me regain monthly capital and pay off debt. For my next car, I plan on trying to keep it for at least a few years, hence why I'm sweating the details.

Bummer about the issues you've had. I have the sound symposer beeping, but it's usually only after a quick move (driveway to garage type thing). I haven't had any of the other problems, although quite justifying replacing your car! Haha.

If I remember, warranty is 3/36 for Ford for bumper to bumper, powertrain is 5/60. For both counts, I'll hit the year limit rather than mileage. Of course, if I have the car that long, it'll be a minor miracle. The last vehicle I owned 3+ yrs was my Yukon, and that was 14 years ago. I'm REALLY trying to keep something longer for a change, although I said the same thing about the Tundra.

Yeah, the FoST is still under warrant, so none of them are real issues as of yet and not real reasons that I "need" get get rid of it lol; but I wouldn't really trust the car outside of warranty based on my current experiences.

Like posted above, I would really like to keep my next car for at least 2-3+ years.

I'm still a honda boy. How about that Acura TL AWD? If I was a baller like you, I'd personally get an Acura ILX or Civic SI and 2 sets of wheels (snow and a/s).

Oh and I'd keep it for >2yrs :P

I've never been a big fan of Honda's.... come to think of it, I've never owned one; which is kind of funny considering all the cars I've owned over the years.

And there's no baller status here.... I'm just a guy that buys cars right so that I can easily get out from underneath them. Hence getting the FoST for $19.7k. I've never paid anywhere close to sticker, which helps to essentially eliminate all negative equity within the first year (and then some in many cases). Making it all too easy to trade them in.

I've only owned 2 cars for over 2.5 years and its been a while: my old WRX and STI. Even though I love VW's, apparently Subaru's are the only cars I can manage to keep around for a couple years or more!

[Learjet45]

I don't know if this is some sort of old adage or just something I heard at some point, but there's the idea that when you go to a flip a coin, you end up hoping for a certain outcome in that brief moment between flipping the coin and it hitting the ground, and that's where your heart lies?

One thing I don't think has been mentioned that would be important to consider is safety. If I recall correctly, there is at least one mini-roninsoldier83 roaming around that you'll presumably be transporting in your new DD. In such a case, if I myself were in your situation, I know safety would be a paramount concern for me. Even if you're the perfect driver, other people can be unbelievably stupid. Subaru is certainly has a reputation for offering some of the safest cars on the road. I've come across various different accident pictures on LegacyGT.com and the Subaru subreddit, and some of the accidents that people walk away from virtually unscathed never cease to amaze me.

However, I know nothing about VW safety and can't make a fair comparison. I do think the AWD of the Subaru has an added benefit here for those days where weather really does suck. Sure, it would suck to be stuck if the VW left you stranded on a bad snow day (although personally I think the only situation that this would actually happen would be one where it's generally unsafe and anyone with half a brain would stay home). However, more likely is someone else being a complete and total numnuts. In that case, I could certainly see the AWD being beneficial in helping to avoid those who seem to have an allergic reaction to snow causing them to forget how to drive and any trouble they would cause.

Just 2 more cents from a bored Subaru owning college student.
Yes, I am a little biased. However, I did try an be as unbiased as possible in my post. Hence my lack of comparison since I don't know anything about VW safety.

[roninsoldier83]

I don't know if this is some sort of old adage or just something I heard at some point, but there's the idea that when you go to a flip a coin, you end up hoping for a certain outcome in that brief moment between flipping the coin and it hitting the ground, and that's where your heart lies?

One thing I don't think has been mentioned that would be important to consider is safety. If I recall correctly, there is at least one mini-roninsoldier83 roaming around that you'll presumably be transporting in your new DD. In such a case, if I myself were in your situation, I know safety would be a paramount concern for me. Even if you're the perfect driver, other people can be unbelievably stupid. Subaru is certainly has a reputation for offering some of the safest cars on the road. I've come across various different accident pictures on LegacyGT.com and the Subaru subreddit, and some of the accidents that people walk away from virtually unscathed never cease to amaze me.

However, I know nothing about VW safety and can't make a fair comparison. I do think the AWD of the Subaru has an added benefit here for those days where weather really does suck. Sure, it would suck to be stuck if the VW left you stranded on a bad snow day (although personally I think the only situation that this would actually happen would be one where it's generally unsafe and anyone with half a brain would stay home). However, more likely is someone else being a complete and total numnuts. In that case, I could certainly see the AWD being beneficial in helping to avoid those who seem to have an allergic reaction to snow causing them to forget how to drive and any trouble they would cause.

Just 2 more cents from a bored Subaru owning college student.
Yes, I am a little biased. However, I did try an be as unbiased as possible in my post. Hence my lack of comparison since I don't know anything about VW safety.

Interesting perspective...

Safety.... well, to be honest with you, I've likely been to at least 100+ car accident scenes. The vast majority result in no apparent injury to either party. Occasionally you'll find someone with a complaint of injury (nothing apparent), but its pretty rare to find people with legitimate injuries from an accident in modern day cars. The last legitimate, debilitating injury I saw? A guy's arm got stuck underneath his truck when he rolled it (drunk).... No amount of safety features was going to prevent that from happening, as his window was rolled down.

Unfortunately, I can't share further details, but its suffice to say that safety isn't a huge concern of mine. Safety features are highly mandated by the Feds these days, so in a sense, all new cars are significantly safer than anything most of us grew up riding in. I've had 1 accident in 15 years of driving (not at fault, 10 years ago). Accidents are relatively rare (for me- knock on wood). Legitimate injuries resulting from your average accident are even more rare. And the once-in-a-blue-moon fatality accident, well, the ones I've seen, I don't think any amount of safety features would have saved the occupants. Hence my general lack of much concern for the issue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that safety features exist. But all new cars are going to have seat belts, multi-stage/zone airbags, break-away motor mounts, side impact beams, crumple zones, reinforced pillars, bumper beams, ect. If they didn't, the Feds wouldn't allow them to be sold as road-going vehicles. But if one vehicle has some new whiz-bang 17 stage airbag deployment vs another vehicle that only has 14 stage airbag deployment, that's not going to be a key feature to me.

As far as not going to work when it snows goes.... well, that's also a tough one. I'm a lowly civil servant that works in emergency services. If I don't go to work, I am royally hosing my team-mates. And its not like we can just call it a "snow day" haha! I can just see the automated message now: "Thank you for calling 911. We're sorry, all emergency services are canceled today due to inclement weather. Please try to survive your current predicament and call us back tomorrow during regular business hours."

Even if I "call in", we're still going to need people there to respond to calls for service, one way or another. If I worked in an office, or a job that allowed me to work from home, this would be a different story.... but when I have people depending on me, well, its a bit more complicated and I'm not a big fan of letting them down if I can help it.

Although in retrospect, at work, I drive nothing but V8 powered, RWD cars with all-seasons in the middle of the night, and I've never got one stuck (knock on wood). But the area I work is fairly densely populated, and there are no real inclines to speak of.... I always make it to my intended destination, I just have to drive considerably slower when the snow is falling. Really, FWD or RWD shouldn't be much of a problem, so long as it doesn't involve starting from a stop on a steep incline in deep snow/ice. There's more inclined areas on my way to work than there is in the area of the city I work in.

Unrelated note, driving the FoST around this evening in a bit of snow- no problems whatsoever. It should be an interesting winter.

[erod550]

Yea if we were talking buying a used car with 60k miles, I wouldn't have voted for the GTI as high mileage VWs, from personal experience and from lots of other friends and a couple relatives, are generally nightmares. But we're talking a brand new car here where reliability probably isn't going to enter into it.

I have always had a lot of confidence driving a FWD in the snow with the right tires, but at the same time it's so effortless to drive my wife's base Impreza in the snow that it almost feels like cheating. But that doesn't mean I'd prefer to drive that car all the time over my own. It's just a few days a year.

[roninsoldier83]

Good points, both are very valid.

In my mind, I would like to hold onto my next car for a while- preferably at least a few years; and actually try to get my money's worth out of it. Although my grand design in my head frequently doesn't work out that way ha! I've owned 2 cars for over 2.5 years, and I would really like to break that record with my next car. If I can do that, reliability will come into play. Otherwise, you make a great point.

As far as the snow goes, I'd like to report that my FoST with Blizzaks has been doing extremely well over the last few days. Going easy on the throttle, I haven't seen the traction control light come on once since that first day of snow! It also made it up my un-shoveled driveway with ease this morning. So far, so good.

[roninsoldier83]

Apparently Motor Trend just named the 2015 Golf (to include the GTI) their Car of the Year:

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/1501_2015_volkswagen_golf_is_the_motor_trend_car_of_the_year/

^^^I'm not entirely shocked.... I suppose I'll see how the FoST fares the rest of the winter wearing snow shoes. I really think I would prefer driving the GTI the ~330 days a year that it's not snowing. Still, a tough call.

[roninsoldier83]

Well, after spending the past week with the FoST wearing snow tires, I think you guys might be right. AWD truly isn't needed for commuting through most of the Metro area, as the FoST has done very well. At this point, I'm once again leaning towards the GTI w/Performance Pack.

Review of FoST with snow tires: http://www.coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=162647#post162647

^^^I can only think that the GTI w/electronically controlled LSD would be just as good, if not better. All the auto journalists say the GTI w/Performance Pack handles just like an AWD car in the dry with no torque steer to speak of. In my mind, this can only translate into a pretty good car in the snow while wearing snow tires. The FoST has been pretty damn good thus far and having no torque steer would only make it better!

[erod550]

Yea I just went blasting around yesterday finding icy roads and had no issues stopping, getting started, turning, etc. As long as you have good tires, the main advantage you give up with FWD is being able to floor it from lights. I love that in my wife's base Impreza, but I can still take off just fine in my FWD, just not as quickly.

[roninsoldier83]

I've found the same thing. I would say that AWD would also be pretty helpful while getting started an a very steep incline, but as it turns out, there's no inclines in my commute that really seem to phase the FoST.

I actually drive a RWD V8 on all-seasons all night, and they truly aren't that bad... but getting back into the FoST w/snow tires in the morning, I can definitely feel a very significant advantage. No problems at all.

Granted, I can't punch it from a stop like I can in the wife's WRX on studded snow tires, but from a rolling start, I almost prefer the FoST, as it is very stable and the TC/Stability Control feels "smarter" in the FoST. No doubt though, her car is definitely "faster" when the snow starts falling; although that's not saying much, as her car is faster in the dry as well!