Political rant thread

[Justin]

Treat the situation instead of focusing on holding the individual accountable. No thanks. I chose not to do crack because of the risks involved, the life it leads to and the potential for death (and I have no interest). If someone does chose to do it, law aside, they need to accept the risks.

The situation keeps them accountable. Lots of addicts are able to get clean and go on to be valuable, productive members of society. To do so, first they have to be alive.

[kingtut]

Whose judgement should we use when determining whether they're deserving of treatment? If they're not up to your standards, would you argue that they deserve to not get medical care? What about if they overdose, should the EMTs ignore the call?

Oh my... typical bleeding-heart lib, ugh. "What if..." When 'what if' happens, its on them- their problem, their dime, their fault. Wipe everyone's a$$ for them, why-doncha? Then we'll all have equally clean a$$es.

Heroin people...her-o-in. Helllooo?

[kingtut]

The situation keeps them accountable. Lots of addicts are able to get clean and go on to be valuable, productive members of society. To do so, first they have to be alive.

That makes no logical sense...none.

<Forgive me. I've ventured beyond the purpose of this thread. I just couldn't help it.>

[Justin]

And I've strayed beyond my original point. Clean needles save money. Health care is expensive, and like it or not, you're paying for their care. End of story.

[Shadowden]

The situation keeps them accountable. Lots of addicts are able to get clean and go on to be valuable, productive members of society. To do so, first they have to be alive.

Strangely, I believe I said I could support programs that actually worked to help the people get out of the situation. If that program does that and they want to get people off drugs, then why the free clean needles? Why not pay for rehab, job placement and short term housing?

I am all for helping people, not facilitating destructive behavior. So, if anyone really expressed any earnest interest to get clean and was willing to accept the difficulties and routinely meet with counselors,then invest in them. Not going to help a person get their next fix though.

[Learjet45]

Just for shits and giggles, here are my results:

You are a left social moderate.
Left: 5.43, Authoritarian: 0.1


Not gonna go getting into any arguments about anything even remotely political on here. Don't want to deal with that. I like you guys too much

[Justin]

Strangely, I believe I said I could support programs that actually worked to help the people get out of the situation. If that program does that and they want to get people off drugs, then why the free clean needles? Why not pay for rehab, job placement and short term housing?

I am all for helping people, not facilitating destructive behavior. So, if anyone really expressed any earnest interest to get clean and was willing to accept the difficulties and routinely meet with counselors,then invest in them. Not going to help a person get their next fix though.

The most destructive behavior isn't drug use. It's unsafe drug use. That may seem oxymoronic, but some IV drug users go for decades without contracting diseases because they're careful. Dead people can't go to rehab. If you're for rehab, then why wouldn't you be for the most basic, least expensive step towards getting people there? It's like seat belt or condom use. It's best to prevent the crash, but since crashes will happen anyway, get people to use seat belts so that the crashes are less lethal. People will have sex, condoms are a cheap easy way to prevent disease transmission and the worst, most expensive STD: babies. People are both dumb and terrible at assessing risk. I don't want to pay for their consequences, which is what happens. If .0001% of my tax dollars can go to needle exchange with a 2000% percent return on investment, sign me up.

If you care, here's some reading:
http://www.pceo.org/pubs/Harm%20reduction.pdf
http://harmreduction.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/CostEffectivenessofSyringeExchangePrograms.pdf

What baffles me is the attitude of "if people are stupid they should die". I don't get it. Free needles don't "facilitate destructive behavior". The destructive behavior will happen regardless. The needles keep the inevitable destructive behavior from costing the rest of us metric butt-loads of money. Averting a single HIV infection costs about $9400, and the average lifetime treatment cost is about $195,188 (http://caps.ucsf.edu/factsheets/needle-exchange-programs-nep/). Why is it more important to "hold the individual accountable" because "they accepted the risks"?

[mOOsE]

I support the idea of helping people get off drugs, but I guess its the basic behavior itself that I don't comprehend. I don't think the program would facilitate anything, because as you said, its going to occur regardless. I think its the basic fundamental that bugs me about societies problem of creating accountability. I certainly don't have the experience with these programs that you do, but my argument isn't about money. Its essentially that people, as a whole, seem to be evolving towards a society where we are less and less responsible for our actions. Clean needles are cheaper, and if the statistics support the program reducing drug use then fine... But its the principle that drives me nuts. But seriously.... Back to gun arguments now

[Justin]

mOOsE, I share your frustration around the accountability thing. It's a really hard balance to strike, and I'm not sure what the best way to do it is. Oh, and guns-what's to debate? They're fun, and anyone who doesn't enjoy decimating watermelons with 7.62 is a killjoy. I guess we could debate about which is more fun, firearms or explosives. I'm in the explosives camp.

[I`m Batman]

BAN pressure cooker and fertilizer! Or BAN high capacity pressure cooker, no more than 10 oz... 15 oz for Colorado.

Just thinking like the politicians.

[kingtut]

Ugh, "moving in the right direction" my a**: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/plan-b-pill-15-yr-olds-article-1.1331621

[I`m Batman]

ALL HAIL KING OBAMA!!!

What is wrong with these (D)people???
It's OK to get high,
it's OK to not work and we'll just give you the tax money from the people that DO work to you.
it's OK to go buy a house that you can't afford then buy big screen TVs and new cars that you can't afford and then the government will bail you out with the tax money from the RESPONSIBLE hard working people.
it's OK to be an ILLEGAL and we'll give you food stamps no questions asked (again, money from the legal hard working people),
it's OK to take MORE money from the people that worked hard their whole life to get to where they are because they make more money,
it's OK to LIMIT and then tax the money that I saved over my life time for retirement,
it's OK to let irresponsible kids to kill babies over the counter,
it's OK to blame everything else instead of trying to fix the source of the problem,
it's OK for the king Obama to give a kill order to US citizens without a trial,
it's OK for King Obama to break all these amendments that he sworn to protect and these (D)people will just blindly follow just because he said that it's for "the greater good" (I'm sure Hitler said something along those lines),

BUT IT'S NOT OK for you to be armed and protect yourself and your family. During the Boston lock down, I bet those anti-gun people, the same people that wants to ban AR15, wish they had an AR15 during the lock down instead of cowering in the corner.

This country is definitely moving in the right (or should I say LEFT) direction... not sure what's at destination though, but it doesn't look pretty.

[kingtut]

I tried to tell people dude, Decision '08:lol:

I hear the Obama housing program (ie. the houses that you and I paid to refi) are still defaulting on their loans:rolleyes:

[erod550]

So just curious, if you're against the morning after pill because it "kills babies over the counter", are you also against general birth control pills?

[kingtut]

are you also against general birth control pills?

Speaking for myself: Personally, I don't have a problem with Adults using standard birth control pills. I do however have a problem with...
A.) Minors being allowed to purchase an intensified version of the birth control pill.
aa.) This administration's ideology is so ironic: They're so concerned about sugar intake and childhood obesity, so they tax it. Yet they're totally willing to allow access to a product that is far worse than sugar. "Let's stop some kid from being a fatty, cause then they'll get picked on and have low self esteem. But let's instead promote the skinny popular girl to go bang whoever she wants...as long as she's "safe". So what if she encounters breast cancer, blood clots, cervical cancer, arterial plaque, or liver cancer-- at least she won't be "troubled" with an unwanted pregnancy. But...if she does get pregnant, we can count on our tax dollars to fund Planned Parenthood, to go cut that little bugger out of her. It's our due diligence as your representatives to do so, after all":rolleyes:
B.) This 'plan B' being treated as a band-aid solution to a larger problem at hand.
C.) This country accepting and encouraging pre-marital sex, as well as treating minors with the same mental capacity as they do adults.

Edit: Typcal BS. Address the problem/s specifically; not the cause.
- The problem is the guns, not the psychos shooting people.
- The problem is the home loan, not the irresponsible person with the oversized home loan.
- The problem is the sugar, not the fat ### who chooses to play video games all day.
- The problem is the police officer using excessive force, not the drunk d-bag who just pulled a knife on them.
- The problem is the LACK of taxation, not the drug.
- The problem is the LACK of vote, not the illegal immigrant breaking our laws.

I could go on, but you know this already...