My new car!
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
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chickenwafer wrote: I hope to dyno sometime next Spring.
pshhhhhh....... Winter time is the best time to have fun on a dyno. Nothing like your intake sucking in 35° air!!!!
[font="Century Gothic"]APR 4 Program Tune - AEM CAI - Vogtland Suspension
JVC KW-NX7000bt HU - eD 6500 Front Comps - cDT EF-61's Rear fill -IDMAX 10" sub-
JL 1000/1 - JL 450/4 [/font]
Past:
Current:
JVC KW-NX7000bt HU - eD 6500 Front Comps - cDT EF-61's Rear fill -IDMAX 10" sub-
JL 1000/1 - JL 450/4 [/font]
Past:
Current:
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
True Dave! But I don't want to risk driving in snow/ice conditions. If the weather and forecast is good I may try it anyway, though. Winter is also the best time to tune since you're in the most ideal conditions, so the conditions only get worse (hotter, muggy air) in the summer so you're tune is safer.
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speedjunkie
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Are you still thinking of coilovers? I've been looking at them some. Not sure what is available for the FD. What kind of use are you going to put them to?
is your car dumped/stanced/hellaflush (yo)? OR are you set at a lowered height to improve roll center and maintain excellent handling?
I was looking at the Buddy Club N+ coilovers a s a fairly budget freindly option that seem to get good reviews from users. That is on the s2k though.
Ideally, I would be getting something like the Eibachs or Penske, or even the KW club sports, but like you, I don't want to spend 3k+.
I'll probably end up on Koni sport (yellows) with eibach springs since dampning is adjustable 1-way any way and what I read is that setting is 90-95% of setting suspension anyway.
is your car dumped/stanced/hellaflush (yo)? OR are you set at a lowered height to improve roll center and maintain excellent handling?
I was looking at the Buddy Club N+ coilovers a s a fairly budget freindly option that seem to get good reviews from users. That is on the s2k though.
Ideally, I would be getting something like the Eibachs or Penske, or even the KW club sports, but like you, I don't want to spend 3k+.
I'll probably end up on Koni sport (yellows) with eibach springs since dampning is adjustable 1-way any way and what I read is that setting is 90-95% of setting suspension anyway.
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
Still weighting all coilover options. If I had an unlimited budget, it would be a much easier choice- Ohlins Road and Track PVC coilovers ($3000) or Zeal Function X ($3200). But I'm trying to keep it cheap.
As far as performance, I do want to lower the car and make it look better, but it's merely a side effect of better handling gained through a low center of gravity and body roll (although the FD already has minimal roll).
I've been researching many different coilover brands out there and comparing them as much as possible. I've gathered that, not surprisingly, most budget coilovers are all made by the same Taiwanese manufacture, then the individual companies anodize them in fancy colors and put their own springs and mounting brackets on them. So, most budget coilovers are, more or less, identical.
I did some research on BC Racing coilovers and I was rather impressed. Yes, they are made in Taiwan, but I've been hard pressed to find bad reviews on them unless when comparing them to coilovers that cost at least 2-3 times more (of course they aren't as good).
BC Racing also makes Stance coilovers as the high end brand, but not much is different. The BC BR coilover for the FD can be found for $1k shipped, where as the equivalent Stance coilover (GR) is $1150. Not a huge price difference but I see no reason to shell out the extra coin.
The added benefit I found for the BC Racing coilover is it comes with much better spring rates for the FD. The BC's come with 10k/8k front/rear, whereas the Stance coils are 12k/12k front/rear, which is much too stiff IMO for the FD. You can get Stance's with the preferred 10k/8k spring rates but it cost more.
If you just Google BC Racing Coilover Reviews you get a plethora of reviews, most pretty good.
Here is a Review of BC's on an S2000 I found interesting as well, again, a good review for them. The reviewer even made direct comparisons to his previous coilover, Buddy Clubs.
This Review even shows some shock dynos, but granted this is of the higher end BC Racing ER-type coilovers, which feature an external oil reservoir and independent adjusters for dampening and rebound (instead of one). I am considering these as well, but they are $1900 shipped for the FD.
I have heard good things about Buddy Club coilovers, but not enough I guess, at least for the FD. For whatever reason they aren't popular on the platform, but neither are the BC Racing coils. The problem with FD owners is they really like to replicate others in solution they believe have worked. They are is also the notion that unless you're dropping $2k or more on a set of coilovers, you're buying crap. There are multiple threads with people asking what are good budget coilovers and everyone says either "save your money and buy good ones" or "buy cheap used good ones".
I currently have Koni Yellow shocks with stock springs, installed by the previous owner. The ride and handling is pretty good, I must admit. So then why transition to coilovers? Well, there are a few reasons, chief is the adjustablity gained by coilovers. You can change ride height, spring pre-load, compression and rebound, to name a few. I'll also be the first to admit if you have no clue what you're doing you can very easily completely mess up the handling of you car, too, with all these adjustments.
I rode in a friends RX-8 with K-Sport coilovers that I thought rode horribly. We later found out he was adjusting the ride height by tightening up the lower spring perch which was drastically pre-loading the spring to crazy stiff levels and, also severely limiting shock travel. The result was an incredibly stiff ride and very little dampening, and obviously, poor handling. Once setup correctly, the ride improved.
Koni's paired with some good springs is still a fantastic entry level setup, even better than many coilover options on the market. I heavily considered just keeping the Koni's and adding some Tanabe or Ebiach springs but in the end I think I'll be happier with coilovers.
As far as performance, I do want to lower the car and make it look better, but it's merely a side effect of better handling gained through a low center of gravity and body roll (although the FD already has minimal roll).
I've been researching many different coilover brands out there and comparing them as much as possible. I've gathered that, not surprisingly, most budget coilovers are all made by the same Taiwanese manufacture, then the individual companies anodize them in fancy colors and put their own springs and mounting brackets on them. So, most budget coilovers are, more or less, identical.
I did some research on BC Racing coilovers and I was rather impressed. Yes, they are made in Taiwan, but I've been hard pressed to find bad reviews on them unless when comparing them to coilovers that cost at least 2-3 times more (of course they aren't as good).
BC Racing also makes Stance coilovers as the high end brand, but not much is different. The BC BR coilover for the FD can be found for $1k shipped, where as the equivalent Stance coilover (GR) is $1150. Not a huge price difference but I see no reason to shell out the extra coin.
The added benefit I found for the BC Racing coilover is it comes with much better spring rates for the FD. The BC's come with 10k/8k front/rear, whereas the Stance coils are 12k/12k front/rear, which is much too stiff IMO for the FD. You can get Stance's with the preferred 10k/8k spring rates but it cost more.
If you just Google BC Racing Coilover Reviews you get a plethora of reviews, most pretty good.
Here is a Review of BC's on an S2000 I found interesting as well, again, a good review for them. The reviewer even made direct comparisons to his previous coilover, Buddy Clubs.
This Review even shows some shock dynos, but granted this is of the higher end BC Racing ER-type coilovers, which feature an external oil reservoir and independent adjusters for dampening and rebound (instead of one). I am considering these as well, but they are $1900 shipped for the FD.
I have heard good things about Buddy Club coilovers, but not enough I guess, at least for the FD. For whatever reason they aren't popular on the platform, but neither are the BC Racing coils. The problem with FD owners is they really like to replicate others in solution they believe have worked. They are is also the notion that unless you're dropping $2k or more on a set of coilovers, you're buying crap. There are multiple threads with people asking what are good budget coilovers and everyone says either "save your money and buy good ones" or "buy cheap used good ones".
I currently have Koni Yellow shocks with stock springs, installed by the previous owner. The ride and handling is pretty good, I must admit. So then why transition to coilovers? Well, there are a few reasons, chief is the adjustablity gained by coilovers. You can change ride height, spring pre-load, compression and rebound, to name a few. I'll also be the first to admit if you have no clue what you're doing you can very easily completely mess up the handling of you car, too, with all these adjustments.
I rode in a friends RX-8 with K-Sport coilovers that I thought rode horribly. We later found out he was adjusting the ride height by tightening up the lower spring perch which was drastically pre-loading the spring to crazy stiff levels and, also severely limiting shock travel. The result was an incredibly stiff ride and very little dampening, and obviously, poor handling. Once setup correctly, the ride improved.
Koni's paired with some good springs is still a fantastic entry level setup, even better than many coilover options on the market. I heavily considered just keeping the Koni's and adding some Tanabe or Ebiach springs but in the end I think I'll be happier with coilovers.
I guess buying used dampeners unles sthey are really cheap or very low mileage just doesn't make sense to me.
One thing that does occur to me is that some coilovers are rebuildable, but not sure all are. I guess I need to investigate that more.
AThanks for the discussion of the coilover advantages(disadvantages for some). I was thinking ride height adjustment was the ony advantage. Along those lines, I like the idea of the coilovers that adjust ride height at the body, and then spring compression at the perch. Makes sense to do these things indpendently to me.
S2k stock suspension has a piggyback reservoir. I'm not sure how many aftermarket dampeners have this. Not sure it makes a difference or not. My only familiarity is with mtb shocks (mostly DH stuff), so my perspective of a remote/piggyback reservoir is that it is able to increase compression dampening as the shock approaches the end of its effective travel. Not sure if that holds here or not. I mention this only because I am not sure if the konis would be better or worse. I liked them on the rear of my MZ3 with Eibach springs.
On a side not, I'm suprrised full race shock setups don't use some sort of air chamber/dampening. Makes for a much lighter shock in the MTB world.
One thing that does occur to me is that some coilovers are rebuildable, but not sure all are. I guess I need to investigate that more.
AThanks for the discussion of the coilover advantages(disadvantages for some). I was thinking ride height adjustment was the ony advantage. Along those lines, I like the idea of the coilovers that adjust ride height at the body, and then spring compression at the perch. Makes sense to do these things indpendently to me.
S2k stock suspension has a piggyback reservoir. I'm not sure how many aftermarket dampeners have this. Not sure it makes a difference or not. My only familiarity is with mtb shocks (mostly DH stuff), so my perspective of a remote/piggyback reservoir is that it is able to increase compression dampening as the shock approaches the end of its effective travel. Not sure if that holds here or not. I mention this only because I am not sure if the konis would be better or worse. I liked them on the rear of my MZ3 with Eibach springs.
On a side not, I'm suprrised full race shock setups don't use some sort of air chamber/dampening. Makes for a much lighter shock in the MTB world.
VRx8 wrote:The BC coilovers are rebuildable in the US. I think when the time comes i'll get some BC coilovers fairly cheap and look good lol.
That cracks me up to an extent. Companies are spending good coin anodizing parts that aren't even seen on stanced cars. Heck, even on normal ride height cars, the coilovers are greatly obscured by the wheels, tires, and brake rotors. (I assume I am agreeing with you on the "looks" aspect).
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
Shadowden wrote:I guess buying used dampeners unles sthey are really cheap or very low mileage just doesn't make sense to me.
One thing that does occur to me is that some coilovers are rebuildable, but not sure all are. I guess I need to investigate that more.
AThanks for the discussion of the coilover advantages(disadvantages for some). I was thinking ride height adjustment was the ony advantage. Along those lines, I like the idea of the coilovers that adjust ride height at the body, and then spring compression at the perch. Makes sense to do these things indpendently to me.
S2k stock suspension has a piggyback reservoir. I'm not sure how many aftermarket dampeners have this. Not sure it makes a difference or not. My only familiarity is with mtb shocks (mostly DH stuff), so my perspective of a remote/piggyback reservoir is that it is able to increase compression dampening as the shock approaches the end of its effective travel. Not sure if that holds here or not. I mention this only because I am not sure if the konis would be better or worse. I liked them on the rear of my MZ3 with Eibach springs.
On a side not, I'm suprrised full race shock setups don't use some sort of air chamber/dampening. Makes for a much lighter shock in the MTB world.
The main benefit of the external reservoir is it keeps the shock oil much cooler and allows the shock to run more oil, increasing the shocks consistency. It also allows for independent adjustments for compression and rebound (not always the case but pretty typical) which allows you to dial in the handling much more.
Some coilovers don't have threaded lower mounts, they are fixed, so the only way to adjust ride height is to seriously crank up the lower spring perch, which drastically increases spring pre load. This lowers shock travel which gives you a lowered ride height, but is absolutely the wrong way of doing it.
I'm not positive why companies don't use air chamber, but I would guess there are good reasons. I'm guessing because air isn't consistent enough. Air changes drastically when heated and cooled, and can change pressures quickly. Most racing teams have moved to nitrogen in their tires because air isn't even consistent enough for tires, let along shocks.
VRx8 wrote:The BC coilovers are rebuildable in the US. I think when the time comes i'll get some BC coilovers fairly cheap and look good lol.
True, BC Racing coils are rebuildable and serviceable in the USA. They even offer custom valving for a fee if you choose, which is something only typically offered on high end coils.
Shadowden wrote:That cracks me up to an extent. Companies are spending good coin anodizing parts that aren't even seen on stanced cars. Heck, even on normal ride height cars, the coilovers are greatly obscured by the wheels, tires, and brake rotors. (I assume I am agreeing with you on the "looks" aspect).
The anodizing aspect has more to due with corrosion resistance and then it evolved into brand identities like how Tein coils are all that now infamous green color, Konis are usually yellow, Cusco is blue, HKS is purple, etc. Most people and the companies certainly realize you can't see them when installed, but people do enjoy gawking over some Internet pictures of the coilovers pre installation, but it's more about brand identification now than anything.
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
So I finally got around to doing something I've always wanted to do- convert the tail lights to 99 Spec. It's fairly simple to do- I followed the write-up Rotary Addicts which was really good.
I did do a few things differently than the write up; I didn't use Contact Paper brand adhesive paper because the only roll I could find was huge and $10 bucks, so I got the off brand roll for $4 bucks at Hobby Lobby.
Also had a HELL of a time cutting out the circles with the compass! First compass I bought was the cheapest one and broke basically immediately. So I went back and got a slightly better compass only to find out it wouldn't fit the hobby knife I bought...FML. I found an old roll of tape that had the diameter I needed and I STILL couldn't cut perfect circles.
I had all but given up until my wife was able to draw the circles with the compass and then cut them out by hand...wife to the rescue!! I then got to work removing the lights and taking them apart.
First, the supplies (don't EVER buy that compass pictures, it's HORRIBLE):
And my stock tails on the car:
I used a heat gun to soften up the glue and pulled the lights apart, took about 3-5 minutes. They pulled apart pretty easily, and this is the result:
You then remove the lenses with two corner screws and pry them out. I applied the circles my wife had cut out and placed them as accurately as I could. Then hit the lenses (front only!) with multiple layers of satin black paint:
And dried:
I let the lenses dry in front of my shop lights for an hour or so and then carefully removed the adhesive papers. The lenses got placed and screwed back in their respective housings:
Finally, I used the heat gun to re-heat the glue to get it tacky and re-seal the housings. The glue was tacky within a minute or so, much quicker since you can hit it directly.
And back together:
And on the car:
It's dark outside so I'll get some better pics tomorrow, but this gives you a good idea:
Lights off:
Running lights:
Running lights and hazards:
I did do a few things differently than the write up; I didn't use Contact Paper brand adhesive paper because the only roll I could find was huge and $10 bucks, so I got the off brand roll for $4 bucks at Hobby Lobby.
Also had a HELL of a time cutting out the circles with the compass! First compass I bought was the cheapest one and broke basically immediately. So I went back and got a slightly better compass only to find out it wouldn't fit the hobby knife I bought...FML. I found an old roll of tape that had the diameter I needed and I STILL couldn't cut perfect circles.
I had all but given up until my wife was able to draw the circles with the compass and then cut them out by hand...wife to the rescue!! I then got to work removing the lights and taking them apart.
First, the supplies (don't EVER buy that compass pictures, it's HORRIBLE):
And my stock tails on the car:
I used a heat gun to soften up the glue and pulled the lights apart, took about 3-5 minutes. They pulled apart pretty easily, and this is the result:
You then remove the lenses with two corner screws and pry them out. I applied the circles my wife had cut out and placed them as accurately as I could. Then hit the lenses (front only!) with multiple layers of satin black paint:
And dried:
I let the lenses dry in front of my shop lights for an hour or so and then carefully removed the adhesive papers. The lenses got placed and screwed back in their respective housings:
Finally, I used the heat gun to re-heat the glue to get it tacky and re-seal the housings. The glue was tacky within a minute or so, much quicker since you can hit it directly.
And back together:
And on the car:
It's dark outside so I'll get some better pics tomorrow, but this gives you a good idea:
Lights off:
Running lights:
Running lights and hazards:
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speedjunkie
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
speedjunkie wrote:Not bad! Good thing Melissa was there to rescue you. LOL
Yeah, truth! Lol thanks.
Shadowden wrote:Taking lights apart freaks me out. I envy guys with the willingness to do so. I would love to pull my lights apart and do some work inside there, but don't want to jack them up. Its insane what the headlights go for.
Nice work...well, except the cheap tools
I've taken headlights and tail lights apart before, it's not a big deal. Once you do it a few times you get the hang of it. I was worried about messing something up, but it's the risk you take I guess. I remember RX-8 headlights were around $900 a piece!
Operator wrote:I dig it!!!!
So when are you putting the car down for the season?
Thanks Dave! I'm not sure I will "put the car down" for winter in a storage sense because if its nice out I might still want to drive it haha. But realistically once we get a major snow storm and the temps stay cold I will probably store it.
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