Build thread

Brigdh · Postby **Brigdh** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:14

Since its not a rotary tester, I'd make sure you are following these directions:
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/rotary%20pages/comp%20folder/comp.html
Don't worry about the values quite yet.

260RPM is a bit fast, spec is 250RPM. That should increase your readings slightly.

Altitude is big. You've got 30-40% less air to compress up here in Colorado than sea level, which causes the reading to drop, big time. I don't screw with the formula and the graph in the FSM isn't that accurate. Instead I plug in my numbers into the calculator here to adjust them: http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rotarycalc

VRx8 · Postby **VRx8** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:14

What seals do you have again? Can't remember from when we rebuilt the engine. You are running pig rich. Also looks like you are using too much oil. You are injecting and premixing right?

$crillaTor · Postby **$crillaTor** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:14

I just did a compression test recently with the same results. I was getting around 40-50psi. Then I realized I missed a step. Make sure you open your throttle wide open. I'm willing to bet that was your issue.

lOOkatme · Postby **lOOkatme** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:14

I'll throw in my .02.

I bet your engine is fine, but you are running super rich with a rich 2-cycle mixture.

I would also double check you 2-cycle oil and ensure it is good for use in a rotary. Some 2-cycle oils will leave deposits behind due to the heat the rotary runs at.

time to get the new ECU installed with new spark plugs and tune it leaner.

I recommend tuning 14-15's AFR during cruise, and richen as you build in the vacuum rows for a little better spool and more power. I think I am running 15.3 AFR at cruise and richen to 14.3 in vacuum upper cells and drop from there for this very reason. I am willing to sacrifice some performance for better MPG and less carbon.

I think the ecu will take care of most of your problems with the larger primary injectors.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:14

Brigdh wrote:Since its not a rotary tester, I'd make sure you are following these directions:
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/rotary%20pages/comp%20folder/comp.html
Don't worry about the values quite yet.

260RPM is a bit fast, spec is 250RPM. That should increase your readings slightly.

Altitude is big. You've got 30-40% less air to compress up here in Colorado than sea level, which causes the reading to drop, big time. I don't screw with the formula and the graph in the FSM isn't that accurate. Instead I plug in my numbers into the calculator here to adjust them: http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rotarycalc

Thanks for the links! I didn't know about the altitude adjustment. I'll check into this again.

VRx8 wrote:What seals do you have again? Can't remember from when we rebuilt the engine. You are running pig rich. Also looks like you are using too much oil. You are injecting and premixing right?

I have the same seals you have, ALS. I love them. Yeah I know I'm running rich, but the APEX'i sucks so bad for trying to lean it out where I need to haha. I'm injecting and premixing, yes. I'm only premixing 1/2oz per gallon since I'm injecting also.

$crillaTor wrote:I just did a compression test recently with the same results. I was getting around 40-50psi. Then I realized I missed a step. Make sure you open your throttle wide open. I'm willing to bet that was your issue.

Oh I didn't know about opening the throttle plates all the way. I'll try that also. That's probably always been my issue since I've never had luck testing compression lol.

I have a remote switch to turn the car over so I can do it myself, but I guess the wires on it weren't big enough or something because they got really hot and the engine was barely turning over. So since I have long arms, I was able to reach the compression gauge in the engine bay to face it towards me and reach into the car with the other hand to turn the keys, but obviously I wouldn't be able to mash the pedal doing it this way lol.

lOOkatme wrote:I'll throw in my .02.

I bet your engine is fine, but you are running super rich with a rich 2-cycle mixture.

I would also double check you 2-cycle oil and ensure it is good for use in a rotary. Some 2-cycle oils will leave deposits behind due to the heat the rotary runs at.

time to get the new ECU installed with new spark plugs and tune it leaner.

I recommend tuning 14-15's AFR during cruise, and richen as you build in the vacuum rows for a little better spool and more power. I think I am running 15.3 AFR at cruise and richen to 14.3 in vacuum upper cells and drop from there for this very reason. I am willing to sacrifice some performance for better MPG and less carbon.

I think the ecu will take care of most of your problems with the larger primary injectors.

I hope you're right haha. I have a feeling it's alright too, because other than being hard to start, I don't have any indications that the engine would be bad. I'm just so sick of having such a hard time starting the car. I talked to Dave (chickenwafer) this afternoon and he was also betting that it's something with the tune, and once I put in the Adaptronic it should clear it right up. I think I'll try that tomorrow night.

Ever since I've injected 2-cycle, I've always used Valvoline. I'll look into that too.

Thanks guys!

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:14

I came on base with the car a bit ago and the fuel gauge said empty all of a sudden, so I drove straight to the gas station. It took 8.5 gallons of the 20 it takes to fill the tank. So I still have that issue. Then the damn car didn't want to start again. ARGH!!!!

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:14

If anyone has a spare, working fuel level sending unit that would be great. I'm going to troubleshoot to see if it's bad, but I have a feeling it is.

Also, the car practically fired right up this afternoon after sitting the rest of the day. Took me by surprise.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:14

I installed the Adaptronic tonight and it started like it used to. Still not great, but better than recently. It's idling pig rich around 1400rpm right now and the AFRs are high 10s/low 11s. I have a good feeling about this ECU. I'll mess with it more tomorrow night or something. Time to study a bit for E-7 lol.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:14

I wired up the Innovate TC-4 so I could log AFRs but I need to get at least one more cable, or probably two since the one I have isn't really long enough to route it the way I want. It's a 2.5 serial cable and the 4ft one from Innovate isn't long enough, so I'm going to Centennial Electronics tomorrow to see if they have one long enough. Anyway, I still need to do some more reading I guess and figure out this wiring. I will say though, it's insane how much easier the car starts on this ECU, almost perfectly. I'm trying lean out the idle some but it's tough when you can't read the AFR gauge anymore lol.

VRx8 · Postby **VRx8** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:14

You probably have different crank timing on the Adaptronic. You can play around with the crank timing and see what timing she likes. Mine is a 10 degrees

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:14

I'm gonna let Dave do that when he comes down Saturday night lol.

I went to Centennial Electronics today at lunch, and OEM Parts after work, and neither of them had a 2.5 male to male cable, but luckily I ordered one from Innovate after lunch (I figured out a way to route the 4ft one to where it is plenty long), having it overnight shipped to be delivered tomorrow. So this $15 cable became $60. Ugh.

Anyway, I realized today why I couldn't get the computer to log...because that's the cable I'm missing, the final cable that goes from the gauge to the ECU. Hopefully that will fix everything but we'll see. I'll bet I'm missing much more.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:14

When we drove bishop castle, I don't remember your car starting hard. I remember it running like a bat out of hell though.

Sounds like you are getting things wrapped up really well. Good luck with the tunee, I hope you get to enjoy your work this driving season (weather has been excellent!).

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:14

I don't remember if it was starting hard back then, I don't think it was though. It's killing me that the weather has been so nice recently, since the car is down.

After working on it this weekend I have a few more issues lol.

I figured out how to route the Innovate cable so it would work and I ordered another one and had it overnighted. I'm sure glad I spent that money because it was useless. I think the TC-4 is either bad or just not functioning for some reason. With the cables routed per the instructions, it won't let anything through to the ECU or the wideband gauge, but if you plug the cable from the LC-1 directly into the ECU or the gauge you get a reading. The way it's supposed to be routed according to the directions is terminator plug to LC-1 in, LC-1 out to TC-4 in, TC-4 out to XD-16 in, XD-16 out to ECU in.

Then I think my wideband took a crap altogether because it's reading 2.5 AFR now, or sometimes it will read either 2.5 AFR or completely lean (20.9) like when it's under decel. I tried an extra sensor I had, and did a free air calibration on both of the sensors and nothing worked. So now I'm looking at getting a new wideband, probably an MTX-L.

My buddy came down to tune this weekend and we discovered that the MAP sensor selected was the internal 4 bar that's in the ECU, but what I was using was a GM 3 bar. We disconnected the MAP sensor altogether and started the car without one, revved it and everything, and it all worked beautifully without a MAP sensor. When it was still on the 3 bar, we selected external MAP sensor and it wouldn't even start the car, but we realized we hadn't calibrated it according to the instructions. On the internal 4 bar sensor, the car will start but it's really tough like it used to be. It makes me wonder though if it's still not a tuning issue, because I figure if it was mechanical it should have been hard to start without a MAP sensor as well.

I've been talking to Andy Wyatt that owns Adaptronic and he's super nice and helpful, and he also deals with Innovate products so he's able to help a bit there too.

I also did some troubleshooting on the fuel gauge issue and discovered my fuel level sender is still good, so I'm thinking either the cable disconnected behind the gauge cluster or the gauge is jacked. I had even changed the ground on the wiring to the same ground as the fuel pump wiring.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:14

^I posted that a couple days ago on RotaryCarClub so I figured I'd just copy and paste, but I have a new update regarding the LC-1.

After talking with Innovate, they suggested hooking the LC-1 up to LM Programmer (on my laptop) and seeing what fuel setting is selected. I checked it last night and it had switched itself to a custom fuel setting, so I switched it back to gasoline. He told me I'd have to do a full calibration so I'm planning on doing that tonight and see if it fixes the wideband. I'm still waiting to hear more about the TC-4 and why it won't let readings through.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:14

Well, I think my LC-1 took a crap, because it was still acting up after I reset the fuel setting. Another guy on 7club has a setup that I'm going to copy. He also has an Adaptronic and a TC-4, but he's using a PLX DM-100 gauge that reads up to four parameters, so he has it reading AFR, boost, and dual EGTs. He does this by using an integration board that the owner of Adaptronic makes, so I ordered all the parts I needed for this swap, which will allow me to log EGTs and AFR, along with cleaning up the interior. I'm still going to need to move my EGT sensors a little further back from the engine, so I'll need some parts for that too but I'm going to have to pull the manifold to do it, so that's going to wait. Here are the parts I ordered.

PLX integration board
http://www.turbosource.com/Adaptronic-PLX-Gauge-Interface-Board-p/ts4-20-65120.htm

PLX DM-100 Touch
http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=MULTDM100TOUCH

Innovate LC-2
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php

Pettit steering column gauge pod
http://shop.pettitracing.com/rx7-column-mount-gauge-pod-p-120009.html

And because my APEX'i AVC-R is acting up again (due to it's bad wiring harness), I bought a new harness. I had a problem with it when I installed it, but I jumped the bad wire with another wire, and now the problem is coming back.

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