Emissions Help

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:14

Update #2

Much thanks to Jimmy for being willing to meet up and help diagnose! This guy is the man!

So one of my issues was that (though embarrassing to admit) I put in about a quart too much oil into the engine when I saw my add oil light was on. Long story short, Rotary rookie mistake. To fix that, I had to clean my intake, and I will be changing spark plugs in a couple weeks. Oil also got further into the exhaust, so it burned off some smoke last night, and is now running relatively clean.

Now to emissions. The reason the car didn't pass emissions is that it didn't have the second O2 sensor in the cat, and also the cat is not OEM. Those two combined I'm sure basically meant the car doesn't have the right a/f ratio or at a minimum too much unburnt fuel is getting through = failed emissions. So at this point and after doing research, it sounds like OEM is the only way to go with catalytic converters. I hesitate to buy used, but if the right deal was out there it might be worth a shot. If buying new, the best deal I could find was:
http://www.parkmazdaoemparts.com/parts/2004/Mazda/RX-8/Base/?siteid=215334&vehicleid=94018§ion=EXHAUST%20SYSTEM&group=EXHAUST%20SYSTEM
= $1,080 shipped. Anyone think they can do better for OEM new?

Or does anyone have a gently used or new cat laying around?

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:14

that seems to be the best price you will get for new. Online Mazda parts will save you 11c lol

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:14

I'd contact DWalker if you haven't. I highly doubt they leave the stock cat in the race cars, but they might be long gone. Worth a shot.

Look up Grid1 for contact information. That is his race team.

GR-8 · Postby **GR-8** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:14

No problem man! Whoever had the car took the OEM cat out, chopped the flanges off and popped in a single cheap aftermarket cat. The welded shut 3rd bung for a
02 sensor and the dash gauges told me it definitely was turbo charged at one point.

They welded the second O2 sensor before the cat, where in the OEM setup it's in the first 1/4 of the first cat. Missing the second cat is also doing you no good for emissions.
I thought something down there looked wrong with the cat and I confirmed it after I took a peek under my car. OEM will fix that. Also look into that Direct Replacement
cat my buddy at the muffler shop can get. $500 for it. I'll stop by the shop tomorrow and see if there is a image of it. My money says it'll work and it does have 2 cats in it like OEM.

Change out those spark plugs when there is no more smoke burning. There should be no more oil getting into your intake so everything on that end is good. Just double check it by
pulling off the MAF sensor and making sure it and the pipe are not wet. Have fun and if you need anything else just let me know.

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Tue May 20, 2014 9:14

Haha - thanks Chris!

Shadowden - I have messaged Don, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet - I hear he may be getting into race season.

Jimmy - Drove it again today and ran just as well as it did before the oil mishap. The dang filter is taking forever to be 100% dry, but I'm hoping to put it back on tonight. Also, I tried researching how people have done direct fit catalytic converters that are non OEM, but I can't get much of a definitive answer. Almost all people are saying avoid non OEM cats, but its hard to say how many of them had direct fit replacements. Only one that I could find somewhat suggested is this "RP Supercat" http://www.rx-7.com/store/rx8/rx8exhaust.html

Thoughts?

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:14

Update #2

So on the advice of Jimmy, I took it to an exhaust shop in Denver. They concurred with our conclusion that the catalytic converter needs replacement.

Now the question is whether I go with a new OEM cat for $1080 or with a direct fit replacement for $520. I asked them what brand it was, and they said AP, which is a major brand in aftermarket cats. I tried searching here and on RX8club and I couldn't find details on anyone who has used this cat for emissions. The general consensus on RX8club is that aftermarket cats are bad and the OEM cat is best, but this being direct fit replacement, it very well might be okay...

Anyone have an opinion?

GR-8 · Postby **GR-8** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:14

JZstl wrote:Update #2

So on the advice of Jimmy, I took it to an exhaust shop in Denver. They concurred with our conclusion that the catalytic converter needs replacement.

Now the question is whether I go with a new OEM cat for $1080 or with a direct fit replacement for $520. I asked them what brand it was, and they said AP, which is a major brand in aftermarket cats. I tried searching here and on RX8club and I couldn't find details on anyone who has used this cat for emissions. The general consensus on RX8club is that aftermarket cats are bad and the OEM cat is best, but this being direct fit replacement, it very well might be okay...

Anyone have an opinion?

Did you ask Mike about a Warranty/Garauntee that it'll pass emissions testing? I would say it should be fine. Seeing that it's a direct fit it has 2 Cats in place like stock. The O2 sensor is in the same spot as stock, 1/4 into the first cat. I doubt they would be able to sell and install it if it wasn't emissions legal. I didn't state offroad use only like many of the "performance" cats that fit in and it's not a generic aftermarket one that you have in the car know. It is built specifically for the RX-8.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

Does AP=Agency Power? If so, I couldn't find a catalytic converter by them, just a cat delete pipe.

Did some reading about The RX8 and catalytic converters though. Seems it is a trouble spot for them. I caught tat the cat shouldn't glow red, unless it is clogged, suffering misfires, or running rich and burning fuel at the cat.

I'd be tempted to try the 520.00 cat since it is half the cost. Not sure if you are planning o run it after you pass emissions, but If you don't, you can have it around waiting for the next test. Little harder to have 1K just sitting in the garage with no purpose other than performing a 10 minute test every two years.

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

GR-8 wrote:Did you ask Mike about a Warranty/Garauntee that it'll pass emissions testing? I would say it should be fine. Seeing that it's a direct fit it has 2 Cats in place like stock. The O2 sensor is in the same spot as stock, 1/4 into the first cat. I doubt they would be able to sell and install it if it wasn't emissions legal. I didn't state offroad use only like many of the "performance" cats that fit in and it's not a generic aftermarket one that you have in the car know. It is built specifically for the RX-8.

He didn't say anything about a guarantee, though I asked that specific question. I feel the same way about it specifically being made for the RX-8.

Here is the link for the specific exhaust (once you enter 04 RX-8) http://showmetheparts.com/apexhaust/
The only thing there that I'm unsure of is the phrase "Not legal for sale or use on vehicles licensed in California or in states where CARB certified catalytic converters must be used. Check with your state authority for details." I'm not sure if that applies here - I'm assuming not.

I will probably end up going with this to try to save some $.

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

Shadowden wrote:Does AP=Agency Power? If so, I couldn't find a catalytic converter by them, just a cat delete pipe.

Did some reading about The RX8 and catalytic converters though. Seems it is a trouble spot for them. I caught tat the cat shouldn't glow red, unless it is clogged, suffering misfires, or running rich and burning fuel at the cat.

I'd be tempted to try the 520.00 cat since it is half the cost. Not sure if you are planning o run it after you pass emissions, but If you don't, you can have it around waiting for the next test. Little harder to have 1K just sitting in the garage with no purpose other than performing a 10 minute test every two years.

I had the same AP question after doing some specific RX-8 searches and looking at RX-8 club, but they are not the same. AP is the actual name of the brand and they just make a ton of different cats. Here is the generic link to their website:
http://www.apexhaust.com/catalog_type/2catalytic-converters/

Yeah it does seem like the cat is trouble for a lot of RX-8s. I think I will end up going with the cheaper one. Assuming I pass, I'm probably just going to leave that cat on. Not sure if I want to spend more $ on a mid pipe, but I guess if it prevents my mediocre cat from burning out sooner, it might be worth it...

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

I personally wouldn't worry about CARB. I'm sure it would cost them a ton of money to get the CARB sticker (which gets transferred to the buyer) and that doesn't make them any better, just legal in California.

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

Shadowden wrote:I personally wouldn't worry about CARB. I'm sure it would cost them a ton of money to get the CARB sticker (which gets transferred to the buyer) and that doesn't make them any better, just legal in California.

Gotcha - I wondered if it was just a California thing. Well I'm going to go ahead an place the order for the AP cat. I pray this works!

vierte · Postby **vierte** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

Just a thought... You should look i.to exceptions to the emissions regulation. Ive heard many times that you can become exept if you spend a certain amount on trying to fix the problem.. I think it was around $500. Could be a good reason to try the aftermarket cat...

JZstl · Postby **JZstl** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

vierte wrote:Just a thought... You should look i.to exceptions to the emissions regulation. Ive heard many times that you can become exept if you spend a certain amount on trying to fix the problem.. I think it was around $500. Could be a good reason to try the aftermarket cat...

I had that thought as well. I just looked it up and it is $715... My obvious main concern is what to do if the aftermarket cat doesn't do the job. I'm assuming there is no way to return it, even it it was only put on for emissions then taken back. Then I would pretty much have to spend the $1000+ for the OEM one.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:14

Might be a good reason to go oem then, but would you question if you overspent by 500? It's a tough call, but if the aftermarket cat doesn't do it, I doubt a stock cat would have either. I certainly wouldn't rely on me since I don't have experience with a rotary.

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