MAZDA 3i Lag

Colombia28 · Postby **Colombia28** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 5 2008, 12:44 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30071]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

it just so happens the STI is an absolute blast to drive [/b]

<---- jealousy.

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 5 2008, 12:44 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30071]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

What those guys said.

Aside from formerly owning a Mazdaspeed 6 (formerly the highest hp MS6 in the state), I also worked at a Mazda dealership for quite a while, and contributed pretty much all of the technical stickies over in the Mazdaspeed section:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=33

One of which contains pretty much every dyno I ever pulled in my Speed6, to show the difference between mods, and how the MS cars react to different mods:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85

So, I've got a good bit of Mazda experience & knowledge, not to mention I think Mazda is a great company. Although, if you take a look at my sig, you'll notice I'm not close minded to any particular brand. I enjoy fun cars... it just so happens the STI is an absolute blast to drive [/b]

Damn. yeah so i take back the comment about the subaru guy. i wanted an sti for the longest time. never really had the money for it. but when i get a little older i will definintely own and mod one. all wheel drive and turbo.....its just amazing. haha. so do u have an explanation for why my car would lag? what was the final HP that u could get out of your MS6

arctic_blue83 · Postby **arctic_blue83** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 5 2008, 03:15 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30105]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Damn. yeah so i take back the comment about the subaru guy. i wanted an sti for the longest time. never really had the money for it. but when i get a little older i will definintely own and mod one. all wheel drive and turbo.....its just amazing. haha. so do u have an explanation for why my car would lag? what was the final HP that u could get out of your MS6[/b]

Well, I don't have a definitive answer, but a theory. Technically, your tubing should have to be pressurized/filled with air due to vacuum created by your motor before delivering the air charge to your motor. You now have a CAI, where I'm presuming the piping is longer than the piping to the stock airbox was, therefor you have more piping to be pressurized/filled with air, which could take marginally more time to get the full air charge to the throttle body, and eventually into the motor. This is why many people with SRI's claim they receive better throttle response, less piping=less lag.

Also, the diameter of the piping might be larger as well, which could also create a tad bit more lag. Typically though, on an NA motor, you're going to get *slightly* better throttle response from a SRI, but should feel more pull in the upper RPMs from a CAI, assuming it's actually positioned in a place where the filter is ingesting a colder/denser charge than it would be from a hotter spot in the engine bay.

This isn't as much of a factor on a turbocharged car, for a couple of reasons, the first being throttle response is typically already compromised significantly over an NA car due to a variety of reasons, like the excess piping feeding into the compressor housing, where it's typically routed through an intercooler, not to mention the time it takes for the turbo to spool. Not to say a CAI on a turbo car can't add a tad bit of lag, just that it's not as noticeable due to the fact most turbo cars already have a bit more lag than NA cars. Also, the placement of the filter isn't as important on a turbo car, as regardless of the temperature of the incoming intake charge, when air is sucked into the compressor housing, it's compressed exponentially, heating the air temperature significantly over what it would be if it was routed directly into the throttle body like it would be on an NA car. From there, the major reduction in temperature you're going to see from the charged air is going to be when it goes through the intercooler, making the temperature of the air at the filter far less crucial... not to say it can't have some effect, it's just not as pronounced as it would be on an NA car.

As far as being a "Subaru guy" goes, lol, I would prefer to think of myself simply as a "car guy". Don't get me wrong, I love Subaru's, this is my 2nd one (04 WRX & 06 STI), but honestly I don't really have a brand loyalty per se lol.

The highest numbers I pulled out of my Speed6 were 284whp & 361wtq, for reference, stock Speed6's on the same dyno put down between about 222-230whp, so my car was making an extra 54-62whp over a stock Speed6. It was pretty quick... but sadly enough, my STI in stock form feels faster. Happy modding.

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 5 2008, 10:00 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30252]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Well, I don't have a definitive answer, but a theory. Technically, your tubing should have to be pressurized/filled with air due to vacuum created by your motor before delivering the air charge to your motor. You now have a CAI, where I'm presuming the piping is longer than the piping to the stock airbox was, therefor you have more piping to be pressurized/filled with air, which could take marginally more time to get the full air charge to the throttle body, and eventually into the motor. This is why many people with SRI's claim they receive better throttle response, less piping=less lag.

Also, the diameter of the piping might be larger as well, which could also create a tad bit more lag. Typically though, on an NA motor, you're going to get *slightly* better throttle response from a SRI, but should feel more pull in the upper RPMs from a CAI, assuming it's actually positioned in a place where the filter is ingesting a colder/denser charge than it would be from a hotter spot in the engine bay.

This isn't as much of a factor on a turbocharged car, for a couple of reasons, the first being throttle response is typically already compromised significantly over an NA car due to a variety of reasons, like the excess piping feeding into the compressor housing, where it's typically routed through an intercooler, not to mention the time it takes for the turbo to spool. Not to say a CAI on a turbo car can't add a tad bit of lag, just that it's not as noticeable due to the fact most turbo cars already have a bit more lag than NA cars. Also, the placement of the filter isn't as important on a turbo car, as regardless of the temperature of the incoming intake charge, when air is sucked into the compressor housing, it's compressed exponentially, heating the air temperature significantly over what it would be if it was routed directly into the throttle body like it would be on an NA car. From there, the major reduction in temperature you're going to see from the charged air is going to be when it goes through the intercooler, making the temperature of the air at the filter far less crucial... not to say it can't have some effect, it's just not as pronounced as it would be on an NA car.

As far as being a "Subaru guy" goes, lol, I would prefer to think of myself simply as a "car guy". Don't get me wrong, I love Subaru's, this is my 2nd one (04 WRX & 06 STI), but honestly I don't really have a brand loyalty per se lol.

The highest numbers I pulled out of my Speed6 were 284whp & 361wtq, for reference, stock Speed6's on the same dyno put down between about 222-230whp, so my car was making an extra 54-62whp over a stock Speed6. It was pretty quick... but sadly enough, my STI in stock form feels faster. Happy modding.[/b]

Thanks man, yeah i read somewhere that because the MAF sensor is used to the stock airbox when it is given a CAI tubing system the air runs over the MAF sensor differently which creates this little lag. Im thinking about changing my CAI into SRI because like i said in an earlier post regardless of whether you have a cold air intake all the air in colorado is COLDDDDDDDD. hahah. but yeah STI's are really really fast. i cant wait to get my paws on one. thanks a lot. i guess i will jsut have to take it to the dealer again

MazdaTom · Postby **MazdaTom** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14

Why are you taking it to the dealer?

Try unhooking your battery to reset the ECU first.

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MazdaTom @ Mar 6 2008, 09:52 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30390]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Why are you taking it to the dealer?

Try unhooking your battery to reset the ECU first.[/b]

all i do is unhook the battery and that resets the ecu?

MazdaTom · Postby **MazdaTom** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14

unhook the battery and press the brake pedal a few times. That "should" reset the ECU quickly. Or you can do that and wait 30 minutes or so and that should do it as well. You car will then "relearn" during the next several miles and start ups. Some argue that if you drive hard during this relearning process, it ECU will make your car slightly faster. Can't say one way or another if that's true or not though.

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MazdaTom @ Mar 6 2008, 01:19 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30422]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

unhook the battery and press the brake pedal a few times. That "should" reset the ECU quickly. Or you can do that and wait 30 minutes or so and that should do it as well. You car will then "relearn" during the next several miles and start ups. Some argue that if you drive hard during this relearning process, it ECU will make your car slightly faster. Can't say one way or another if that's true or not though.[/b]

well i will try it and let you know. thanks a lot

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 6 2008, 06:44 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30520]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

well i will try it and let you know. thanks a lot[/b]

Alright so i reset the ECU and it still seams to have a small bit of lag but i think that is because of my CAI.

icon · Postby **icon** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 11 2008, 08:09 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31747]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Alright so i reset the ECU and it still seams to have a small bit of lag but i think that is because of my CAI.[/b]

when i installed my cai i noticed the car had some lag compare to stock. i just converted it to a sri and it feels alot better

Colombia28 · Postby **Colombia28** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 11 2008, 07:09 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31747]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Alright so i reset the ECU and it still seams to have a small bit of lag but i think that is because of my CAI.[/b]

I still think Brandon may be right. Its been quite some time since i had my 3, but i can vaguely recall some lag when first getting on the throttle compared to stock. I don't think its anything to worry about.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (icon @ Mar 11 2008, 08:02 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31753]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

when i installed my cai i noticed the car had some lag compare to stock. i just converted it to a sri and it feels alot better[/b]

This only helps confirm Brandon's reply. Maybe do the same and convert it to an SRI for a day or two and see if you notice a difference.

I think Brandon or someone else has already suggested making sure that everything is tight. If there is any way at all that air is leaking out of the intake whether at the connection with the throttle body or piping leading to the filter, that would certainly be the cause of the lag.

If you need any help with anything or such just give me a call and ill gladly come by and see if we can see anything noticeably wrong.

tsx_guy · Postby **tsx_guy** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14

putting on my little science hat, isn't it ideal have a smaller intake chamber at lower rpms to improve/maximize low end torque and by having a larger one ( via a CAI) causes lag or hesitation? I seem to recall my stock air box had a flapper valve that was closed at lower engine speeds but opened up to allow more air as the engine moved faster. I understand the flapper was quite small and didn't really see how much more benefit it added. I read somewhere that the flapper did not exist in the '07 modesl. I have seriously considered putting my airbox back to see if the lag disappears.....but figured I probably couldn't tell and have let it as it.

jerstillman · Postby **jerstillman** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6i_guy @ Mar 11 2008, 08:56 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31758]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

putting on my little science hat, isn't it ideal have a smaller intake chamber at lower rpms to improve/maximize low end torque and by having a larger one ( via a CAI) causes lag or hesitation? I seem to recall my stock air box had a flapper valve that was closed at lower engine speeds but opened up to allow more air as the engine moved faster. I understand the flapper was quite small and didn't really see how much more benefit it added. I read somewhere that the flapper did not exist in the '07 modesl. I have seriously considered putting my airbox back to see if the lag disappears.....but figured I probably couldn't tell and have let it as it.[/b]

So it looks like friday im gonna do a little wrenching with andrew and turn my CAI into a SRI and ill will post back and let you guys know if there is any difference

tsx_guy · Postby **tsx_guy** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 12 2008, 02:12 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31935]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

So it looks like friday im gonna do a little wrenching with andrew and turn my CAI into a SRI and ill will post back and let you guys know if there is any difference[/b]

nice...good luck with that...

cprtrainer · Postby **cprtrainer** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerstillman @ Mar 12 2008, 02:12 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=31935]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

So it looks like friday im gonna do a little wrenching with andrew and turn my CAI into a SRI and ill will post back and let you guys know if there is any difference[/b]

I'm running a SRI on mine (2.3) and it definetely has more "punch" from about 1500-4000 than it did when stock. Maybe its just the happy tune it plays that makes it feel stronger... Gained about 1 mpg too! Good luck!

MAZDA 3i Lag

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