1. I've got a new fuel system on the way and I don't really trust the turbo to boost more than 5-7PSI.
2. Nope the E-Manage won't touch timing just injectors and I'm running a Forge manual boost controller
3. Ppl on Rx8Club seem to be running 11:1 that's why I said 11.8:1 or higher. If I'm not mistaken E-manage aims for a 12:1.
4. I have EMU and that's what I'm basing the LC-1 compatabilty off of Chris also haha
5. EMU allows you to set the RPM range you want to use so you can have as many or as little points as you want. I guess it depends on the laziness of the tuner haha
6. It wasn't my car that was the problem it's E-Manage. I've heard different reviews about it but I've got someone who's going to street tune it for me. (Only because we don't have access to a dyno)
Car Died!
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arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX 8 Ghost @ Mar 7 2008, 12:04 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30685]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
1. What I'm saying was not about pushing more boost, higher IAT's are more dangerous... if anything, I was warning that pushing the same boost pressures as the guy's at sea level would be more dangerous, since they'll have lower (safer) IAT's and typically higher octane fuel.
3. Just a quick FYI, 11.8:1 is LEANER than 11:1... if it helps clarify, it's referring to air molecules:fuel molecules.... if you wanted to tune richer (read: safer) than 11:1, an AFR like 10.8:1 would be richer. If the EMU targets 12:1, that's pretty effin lean for a turbo rotary IMO, but then again, I could be wrong, as I haven't played with too many rotaries.
5. Badass. That's the best way to go about it. I like tuning from the onset of boost, based on about 250rpm increments, but to each their own.
6. That's what I'm asking... why wouldn't they tune an e-Manage? It's a popular system, kind of hard for me to imagine a shop as large as they are that wouldn't tune such a popular system... although, if you have someone who knows how to tune, and need access to a dyno, most dyno shops will let you rent dyno self-tuning time if that's the route you choose to take. Good luck!
1. I've got a new fuel system on the way and I don't really trust the turbo to boost more than 5-7PSI.
2. Nope the E-Manage won't touch timing just injectors and I'm running a Forge manual boost controller
3. Ppl on Rx8Club seem to be running 11:1 that's why I said 11.8:1 or higher. If I'm not mistaken E-manage aims for a 12:1.
4. I have EMU and that's what I'm basing the LC-1 compatabilty off of Chris also haha
5. EMU allows you to set the RPM range you want to use so you can have as many or as little points as you want. I guess it depends on the laziness of the tuner haha
6. It wasn't my car that was the problem it's E-Manage. I've heard different reviews about it but I've got someone who's going to street tune it for me. (Only because we don't have access to a dyno)[/b]
1. What I'm saying was not about pushing more boost, higher IAT's are more dangerous... if anything, I was warning that pushing the same boost pressures as the guy's at sea level would be more dangerous, since they'll have lower (safer) IAT's and typically higher octane fuel.
3. Just a quick FYI, 11.8:1 is LEANER than 11:1... if it helps clarify, it's referring to air molecules:fuel molecules.... if you wanted to tune richer (read: safer) than 11:1, an AFR like 10.8:1 would be richer. If the EMU targets 12:1, that's pretty effin lean for a turbo rotary IMO, but then again, I could be wrong, as I haven't played with too many rotaries.
5. Badass. That's the best way to go about it. I like tuning from the onset of boost, based on about 250rpm increments, but to each their own.
6. That's what I'm asking... why wouldn't they tune an e-Manage? It's a popular system, kind of hard for me to imagine a shop as large as they are that wouldn't tune such a popular system... although, if you have someone who knows how to tune, and need access to a dyno, most dyno shops will let you rent dyno self-tuning time if that's the route you choose to take. Good luck!
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SpeedRacer
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Thats cool just buy us all pizza at dyno day :P 20 pizza's plz. j/k I didn't do shit 
Heavy duty adjustable dog leashes
http://www.TitanTuff.com
http://www.TitanTuff.com
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RX-7drifter
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Those Meddling Kids
We don't tune emanage because it is not a reliable and consistant platform. The tune will change for no reason and it does not compensate for temperature and altitude changes. We do not feel that we can give someone a safe tune with we can stand behind when the system is not consistant. With that in mind we pretty much stay away from most piggyback ecus such as Utec, Unichip, Emanage, Perfect Power and the like. I've tuned them all before and there is nothing better than flashing the factory ecu or getting a full standalone for reliability, repeatability, and maximum power. In my opinion it is unwise to run Forced Induction on a vehicle that does not having a solution for tuning ignition timing. There are two major parts to tuning any engine- Fuel and Spark. To leave timing unchanged and too far advanced is asking for trouble. That being said- you can rent the dyno for as long as you like- It's $100/hr.
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arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revolutions Performance @ Mar 7 2008, 05:14 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30737]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
That makes sense. Although I'm with you, in preferring flash based tuning (Accessport, ECUtek, Open Source ect), I've owned and worked on other people's cars running UTEC's in the past, and my former Mazdaspeed 6 that I ran a simple DTEC on, that have been pretty damn consistent. With my Speed6, I used to frequent a certain local dyno, and went months apart between dyno pulls after tuning, only to see my AFR's were identical. I've seen similar results from a couple WRX's running UTEC's, where their AFR's stayed consistent over long periods of time. Not to say that's true for every car, I know RX-8's have picky ECU's that like to revert back to stock tunes over the course of time, but I have seen otherwise.
With that said, I completely understand where you're coming from. I guess I've been spoiled, I've mostly been around factory turbo'd cars here lately, with pretty advanced timing multipliers, so never really had to touch ignition timing too much, as car's like the Mazdaspeed 3/6 are incredibly adept at keeping timing advanced, and retarding it in the case of knock, only to re-advance timing after sensing no knock over the course of a few driving cycles. I completely understand what you mean about keeping timing too far advanced on a NA vehicle that's been turbocharged, I only assumed the RX-8s finicky ECU would pull timing accordingly in the event of it sensing knock. For overall safety, I agree it's safer to pull timing beforehand, and advance slowly while monitoring a knock sensor. Most of the guys I used to associate with were fairly old-school, they mostly just tuned to the point of knock, then pulled 2 degrees of timing.
Your reasoning is sound, and again I understand completely now. The fact you guys stand behind your tunes to that extent is admirable, and respectable. From the nightmare stories I've heard about RX-8's reverting to stock tunes after long tuning sessions, I probably wouldn't want to touch a turbo'd RX-8 with a piggyback either. Or at least not without giving a very solemn disclaimer lol. Thank you for taking the time to post, with a completely understandable explanation. It's truly appreciated.
That being said, to Ghost, eventually, you should opt for a more permanent solution of tuning. I haven't looked into the aftermarket for the RX-8, but I'm pretty sure there's no open source or licensed tuning software available at the time, and standalones aren't usually cheap, and can be difficult to install in some cases... what I would consider, for simplicity sake, is in the future picking up an Accessport since Cobb just released them. In typical Cobb fashion, I'm sure that in the coming months, they should be releasing Pro/Street tuner software, which would allow you to properly tune the car for your specific application... just my opinion, but if it was my car, that's probably the route I would take, unless you can get an incredibly good deal on a good standalone, but even then, just for the sake of simplicity, I would rather flash the stock ECU. Something to keep in mind.
We don't tune emanage because it is not a reliable and consistant platform. The tune will change for no reason and it does not compensate for temperature and altitude changes. We do not feel that we can give someone a safe tune with we can stand behind when the system is not consistant. With that in mind we pretty much stay away from most piggyback ecus such as Utec, Unichip, Emanage, Perfect Power and the like. I've tuned them all before and there is nothing better than flashing the factory ecu or getting a full standalone for reliability, repeatability, and maximum power. In my opinion it is unwise to run Forced Induction on a vehicle that does not having a solution for tuning ignition timing. There are two major parts to tuning any engine- Fuel and Spark. To leave timing unchanged and too far advanced is asking for trouble. That being said- you can rent the dyno for as long as you like- It's $100/hr.[/b]
That makes sense. Although I'm with you, in preferring flash based tuning (Accessport, ECUtek, Open Source ect), I've owned and worked on other people's cars running UTEC's in the past, and my former Mazdaspeed 6 that I ran a simple DTEC on, that have been pretty damn consistent. With my Speed6, I used to frequent a certain local dyno, and went months apart between dyno pulls after tuning, only to see my AFR's were identical. I've seen similar results from a couple WRX's running UTEC's, where their AFR's stayed consistent over long periods of time. Not to say that's true for every car, I know RX-8's have picky ECU's that like to revert back to stock tunes over the course of time, but I have seen otherwise.
With that said, I completely understand where you're coming from. I guess I've been spoiled, I've mostly been around factory turbo'd cars here lately, with pretty advanced timing multipliers, so never really had to touch ignition timing too much, as car's like the Mazdaspeed 3/6 are incredibly adept at keeping timing advanced, and retarding it in the case of knock, only to re-advance timing after sensing no knock over the course of a few driving cycles. I completely understand what you mean about keeping timing too far advanced on a NA vehicle that's been turbocharged, I only assumed the RX-8s finicky ECU would pull timing accordingly in the event of it sensing knock. For overall safety, I agree it's safer to pull timing beforehand, and advance slowly while monitoring a knock sensor. Most of the guys I used to associate with were fairly old-school, they mostly just tuned to the point of knock, then pulled 2 degrees of timing.
Your reasoning is sound, and again I understand completely now. The fact you guys stand behind your tunes to that extent is admirable, and respectable. From the nightmare stories I've heard about RX-8's reverting to stock tunes after long tuning sessions, I probably wouldn't want to touch a turbo'd RX-8 with a piggyback either. Or at least not without giving a very solemn disclaimer lol. Thank you for taking the time to post, with a completely understandable explanation. It's truly appreciated.
That being said, to Ghost, eventually, you should opt for a more permanent solution of tuning. I haven't looked into the aftermarket for the RX-8, but I'm pretty sure there's no open source or licensed tuning software available at the time, and standalones aren't usually cheap, and can be difficult to install in some cases... what I would consider, for simplicity sake, is in the future picking up an Accessport since Cobb just released them. In typical Cobb fashion, I'm sure that in the coming months, they should be releasing Pro/Street tuner software, which would allow you to properly tune the car for your specific application... just my opinion, but if it was my car, that's probably the route I would take, unless you can get an incredibly good deal on a good standalone, but even then, just for the sake of simplicity, I would rather flash the stock ECU. Something to keep in mind.
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RX-7drifter
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SpeedRacer
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RX-7drifter
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Huzer21
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 8 2008, 01:51 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=30824]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
There are already AP maps for FI out there, believe it or not.
And Ghost, good luck with the car today.
That being said, to Ghost, eventually, you should opt for a more permanent solution of tuning. I haven't looked into the aftermarket for the RX-8, but I'm pretty sure there's no open source or licensed tuning software available at the time, and standalones aren't usually cheap, and can be difficult to install in some cases... what I would consider, for simplicity sake, is in the future picking up an Accessport since Cobb just released them. In typical Cobb fashion, I'm sure that in the coming months, they should be releasing Pro/Street tuner software, which would allow you to properly tune the car for your specific application... just my opinion, but if it was my car, that's probably the route I would take, unless you can get an incredibly good deal on a good standalone, but even then, just for the sake of simplicity, I would rather flash the stock ECU. Something to keep in mind.[/b]
There are already AP maps for FI out there, believe it or not.
And Ghost, good luck with the car today.
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