Cold Air Intake or Wait for Turbo?

bellalyssa · Postby **bellalyssa** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

Alright, I am thinking about all of the wonderful things I can do to my 3 hatch and I wanted to snag some advice from you guys. I found a great turbo kit that I can put in (includes EVERYTHING) for about $3500. It includes a GT28 turbo, intercooler piping, stainless steel downpiping, manifolds etc and it has the programming for it. Link is here:

http://tripointengineering.com/product_info.php?products_id=2119&osCsid=516da2b5410ce75b0dc249ae2ddbd50e

I don't know if it would make sense to wait to do engine mods until I get the turbo in (which will be a year to year and a half). Right now with regards to engine mods I was just thinking a cold air intake. I would upgrade suspension and exhaust before the intake and the other mods would mainly be cosmetic.

Do you think I should wait to upgrade the suspension and exhaust until I get the turbo in? Should I just not do the cool air intake since I plan on throwing in a turbo?

One last question, I want to put a front mount intercooler on as well, should I do that the same time as the turbo?

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

I would maybe look at a used CAI if you really want one now since you plan to go turbo and that would save you some money.

I would wait on the exhaust till the turbo setup. Really though I would go with the suspension now since it has nothing to do with the motor. But in truth I would just save for the turbo setup and maybe you could get it sooner.

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

Just remember, no kit includes EVERYTHING you need. You will still need at least some quality Gauges (wandband AFR, oil temp and press, and water temp are helpful, EGT is a good one too), a boost controller (these can range from a simple $25 manual type to $600 electronic units) and tuning. I honestly doesn't matter if the kit comes "pre-tuned" because those almost always suck and you will NOT get maximum performance out of your engine.

Also keep in mind, with a turbo you are placing more heat into your engine and engine bay, so upgrading the stock cooling system is a very wise idea.

What I did was upgraded everything else first- suspension, brakes, some power stuff, and other little interior/exterior pieces and learned how to drive my car that way before I went doubling the factory power. Everyone wants more power but get some seat time and you'll be faster.

If you are really itching to put some parts I would recommend start with the suspension and brakes first. You won't have to replace them when you go turbo and they will give you instant fun right now.

And please wait to putting on the FMIC unit you have a turbo- you know an intercooler works with a turbo so it's useless without a turbo, right? (Plus it's included in that kit you linked)

Postby **Huzer** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

Trade it in for a Speed3. Failing that, go the route chickenwafer mentioned.

RedRoadster · Postby **RedRoadster** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

I looked over the site you linked, and it looks pretty thorough. It would be a really good starting point to work from, and if power is your top priority.

Chickenwafer's right, especially on the seat time aspect, but I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

I'm going to assume that it does include some manner of boost controller, but that's a good question to ask, since it doesn't explicitly state one way or the other.

Assuming the base fuel/ignition map errs on the side of 'safe', Chickenwafer's right in that you won't get maximum performance out of the kit.

BUT, again, assuming it is 'safe', you can probably run it on the base map without the need for the additional gauges / wideband O2 sensor.

So, all in all, you can get away with the list price on the web page plus the of oil, coolant, and a filter for the initial install, but your priorities after that should go towards being able to 1) run it safely (i.e. gauges), and 2) fine tune it (wideband, dyno tuning time)

As far as extra heat capacity, I'm not as familiar with the 3s, but things like oil coolers and radiator fan mods come to mind.

Cesaros · Postby **Cesaros** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

Do-More-Research...

My advise would be to not use Tri-Point. I know a few people on other mazda3 forums who run F2 Stage1 and Stage2 kits. They have also spent thousands in upgrading their engine internals and tuning. One of which has spent over $9000 and his car still isn't quite running yet. but they make good stuff.

If you plan on just slapping this bad boy on and calling it a day, then you really need to look into this project alot more.

But, upgrade everything else on your car in the mean time. That way, when you do install a turbo, you already have a free flowing exhaust, good suspension, lighter wheels, and HOPEFULLY you have your upgraded rods/pistons/and head gasket waiting to be installed to, along with a good tuner to schedual you in so your car actually runs.

Ive said this before somewhere on this forum, but...

just remember, your boosting a non-turbo engine, which means if you dont somewhat 'build' your engine for boost, your either gona get minimal gains and hurt your engine, or get good gains and hurt your engine fast.

good luck...

bellalyssa · Postby **bellalyssa** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

Thanks for all of the advice guys.

Cesaros: There was no intent of slapping anything on. I'm just trying to get a plan mapped out so that I know what to do so the car and engine is ready for that kind of power. The last thing I want to do is blow the engine because the car can't handle it. Thanks for the information though!

Chickenwafer: The FMIC would come after the turbo. I was just trying to decide whether to install it the same time I install the turbo or wait. I have friends that have had that a turbo installed and they waited to put the FMIC in. I kind of figured that was a waste of time because you wouldn't be getting the full potential of the turbo.

Thanks so much for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I have a direction to work toward now.

AIM WO4 · Postby **AIM WO4** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

That woul be about $3200 after the 5% discount. Looks like it has the FMIC.

bellalyssa wrote:Alright, I am thinking about all of the wonderful things I can do to my 3 hatch and I wanted to snag some advice from you guys. I found a great turbo kit that I can put in (includes EVERYTHING) for about $3500. It includes a GT28 turbo, intercooler piping, stainless steel downpiping, manifolds etc and it has the programming for it. Link is here:

http://tripointengineering.com/product_info.php?products_id=2119&osCsid=516da2b5410ce75b0dc249ae2ddbd50e

I don't know if it would make sense to wait to do engine mods until I get the turbo in (which will be a year to year and a half). Right now with regards to engine mods I was just thinking a cold air intake. I would upgrade suspension and exhaust before the intake and the other mods would mainly be cosmetic.

Do you think I should wait to upgrade the suspension and exhaust until I get the turbo in? Should I just not do the cool air intake since I plan on throwing in a turbo?

One last question, I want to put a front mount intercooler on as well, should I do that the same time as the turbo?

Cesaros · Postby **Cesaros** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14

AIM WO4 wrote:That woul be about $3200 after the 5% discount. Looks like it has the FMIC.

thats cooorect

not too many kits that have an optioon for tmic..atleast for the 3

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:14

bellalyssa wrote:TChickenwafer: The FMIC would come after the turbo. I was just trying to decide whether to install it the same time I install the turbo or wait. I have friends that have had that a turbo installed and they waited to put the FMIC in. I kind of figured that was a waste of time because you wouldn't be getting the full potential of the turbo.

Thanks so much for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I have a direction to work toward now.

Install the FMIC with the turbo, of course. Not only will you have less performance, but you could potentially damage your engine with sky high IAT's if you don't install the intercooler.

And take it from me (someone that has turbo'ed many NA motors), If you're not emotionally and financially prepared to replace a blown motor, because it likely will happen, then you're not ready for a turbo.

It honestly would be easier for the time and money you're going to spend to trade in your car for a MS3, unless you just want to be super unique or something.

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:14

I would completely agree with the MS3 statement.

bellalyssa · Postby **bellalyssa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:14

I'm hoping that in about a year and a half to two years I'll have the income to replace a blown motor if that happens. That means the turbo won't go in until I have that backup money. The shop I go to has put turbos in N.A. engines before and they have an extensive process to ensure that the engine is as ready as it can be for that. I have to talk to them more about what they think about some of the kits on the market but I trust their judgement. All of the advice from all of you is really helping too. It's going to be a slow process for me though because I am in love with this car and don't want to lose it to some stupidity of mine.

One of my big things about a car is that I want to be able to do anything I want to with it or to it. My previous car had no opportunity for advancement (it was a Hyundai Accent) and I hated not being able to at least have the opportunity to make it MY ride. It would always be stock, always be slow (regardless of what I did) and I was getting tired of it. I'm proud of my car now and I want to show that and put work into it to show other people that. It's a pride thing I guess... but the point is that I have the opportunity to make this car MINE.

I wouldn't mind a bit of uniqueness either

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:14

Deff don't turbo until you have the money for a new motor. It's SO easy for a motor to pop. Just one thing that gets overlooked....

Having a shop install the turbo is good if you're nervous about doing it yourself.....even with the best shop in the world doing the install and everything covered, it all means nothing if you don't get it tuned properly. Budget some serious cash (like $400-$800 bucks) to get a proper dyno tune.

I understand personaliztion (I mean, look at my car!) but think of it this way:

A Mazdaspeed3 isn't that expensive. You can get a used one for under $20k. You're going to spend at least $6k on a turbo and all accessories, another $1500 or so suspension, $500 on brakes, and more on transmission upgrades like a clutch and flywheel, plus motor mounts, etc.

Now, I know the modding bug doesn't end. You get an MS3 and you'll still put parts on it, I get that. But in the end you'll have a faster car with the MS3 with the money you invested.

Of course, I think the fastest Mazda3's right now are still "normal" 2.3s with built motors pushing 500+fwhp. It's more unique, yes, but just think about the time, effort, and money you'll put into you're 3 when it would be a lot easier to go with an MS3.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all, if anything I think it would be kickass for you to have a turbo'ed 3, I would love it, I just don't want you to regret it, LOL.

Cesaros · Postby **Cesaros** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:14

bellalyssa wrote:but the point is that I have the opportunity to make this car MINE.

I wouldn't mind a bit of uniqueness either

didnt you pay for it? i assume your have the title in Your name? lol

I mean, you *could* write your name in permanent marker on the dash or engine block too.

all joking aside...

Id have to agree with that fact that turboing will cause alot of possible financial strains. (everyone drives a car with a turbo aggressively)..hell look at the MS3, people have problems with those and they were built to 'handle' that little pee-shooter turbo.

But, Im sure in a year you'll have done your reading up on this subject, and have 90% of your ducks in a row though. So ill be excited to see your progress if you decide to go this route.

T-time · Postby **T-time** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:14

if i blow mine i'll just say screw you guys and buy a genesis

Cold Air Intake or Wait for Turbo?

Cold Air Intake or Wait for Turbo?

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