I need help figuring out where and from who i should get my engine management from. Does anyone use hks Fcon? i have heard good things but never been able to contact someone using one! Road race engineering no longer supports these car, reich racing ripped off a bunch of people, and cork sport doesn't make anything like what i need!
What I need from the "device": I need to be able to have proper fuel up to 18psi, and i need to not have some retarded stock 10.5 or 11psi fuel and boost cut! not asking too much, just help hauling ass in a car that no one makes parts for!
Engine Management... I need some!
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
The biggest thing to consider when looking at EMS options are:
-Cost
-Install (PnP or custom hard wire?)
-Can you tune yourself? (otherwise you need find a tuner local to you)
-Does it work with your engine (most popular units work with everything, this mostly applies to rotaries)
-What features do you really need?
There are different types of EMS options as well, such as chip/reprogram/reflashing of the factory ECU
A piggyback unit that lets the factory ECU control most basic functions and the piggyback will control usually fueling and ignition (as well as other various features) at a preset point, usually when the engine enters boost.
A complete standalone replaces your entire factory ECU and gives you complete control over the engine, from idle to warm up characteristics to wide open throttle operation. These are more complex, usually harder to set and tune, more expensive, and sometimes have to be custom wired. And on newer OBD-II vehicles a lot of factory ECU's run the gauge cluster, ABS system, power steering system, even airbags and air conditioning systems. With a standalone you could loose all of this.
If you just need fuel/ignition control I would recommend a piggyback. Typically piggybacks aren't the best solution but for a good EMS upgrade you can't go wrong with one. The OEM ECU will control idle, warm up, and still run any accessories you may have.
For a piggyback I like the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller (F/IC). It can tune with MAF (airflow meter) OR MAP (manifold pressure), has large tuning windows, is easy to tune with, and relatively easy to wire. The higher end version (F/IC 8) also has an expandable boost controller (you will need to buy the AEM boost control solenoid) built in so that's a HUGE plus and and a nice feature. LINK
The HKS F-Con EMS is a great EMS but the system is locked from HKS so only an HKS Authorized tuner can alter the tune and even install the system. HKS does this to protect the reputation if you will of the EMS so people don't blame blown motors to this particular EMS. If you're not going to do any self tuning anyways then it isn't a huge deal and ensures you will get a solid tune, but adds cost.
Other good standalones are the AEM Universal EMS- it has a crap ton of features and honestly most people never use all of them.
The Haltech E8 is another solid standalone EMS that I really like. The software is awesome and easy to use, has great features, and a large support network of tuners. It reads all GM sensors too, which are accurate and easy to find and cheap, so it's easy to convert to wire it up. Plus, you can get used E8's all day for a good price. The Haltech E11v2 is basically an updated version of the E8 and has a lot more features and works really well.
-Cost
-Install (PnP or custom hard wire?)
-Can you tune yourself? (otherwise you need find a tuner local to you)
-Does it work with your engine (most popular units work with everything, this mostly applies to rotaries)
-What features do you really need?
There are different types of EMS options as well, such as chip/reprogram/reflashing of the factory ECU
A piggyback unit that lets the factory ECU control most basic functions and the piggyback will control usually fueling and ignition (as well as other various features) at a preset point, usually when the engine enters boost.
A complete standalone replaces your entire factory ECU and gives you complete control over the engine, from idle to warm up characteristics to wide open throttle operation. These are more complex, usually harder to set and tune, more expensive, and sometimes have to be custom wired. And on newer OBD-II vehicles a lot of factory ECU's run the gauge cluster, ABS system, power steering system, even airbags and air conditioning systems. With a standalone you could loose all of this.
If you just need fuel/ignition control I would recommend a piggyback. Typically piggybacks aren't the best solution but for a good EMS upgrade you can't go wrong with one. The OEM ECU will control idle, warm up, and still run any accessories you may have.
For a piggyback I like the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller (F/IC). It can tune with MAF (airflow meter) OR MAP (manifold pressure), has large tuning windows, is easy to tune with, and relatively easy to wire. The higher end version (F/IC 8) also has an expandable boost controller (you will need to buy the AEM boost control solenoid) built in so that's a HUGE plus and and a nice feature. LINK
The HKS F-Con EMS is a great EMS but the system is locked from HKS so only an HKS Authorized tuner can alter the tune and even install the system. HKS does this to protect the reputation if you will of the EMS so people don't blame blown motors to this particular EMS. If you're not going to do any self tuning anyways then it isn't a huge deal and ensures you will get a solid tune, but adds cost.
Other good standalones are the AEM Universal EMS- it has a crap ton of features and honestly most people never use all of them.
The Haltech E8 is another solid standalone EMS that I really like. The software is awesome and easy to use, has great features, and a large support network of tuners. It reads all GM sensors too, which are accurate and easy to find and cheap, so it's easy to convert to wire it up. Plus, you can get used E8's all day for a good price. The Haltech E11v2 is basically an updated version of the E8 and has a lot more features and works really well.
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RX-7 Chris
- Posts: 7800
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:14
- Location: Colorado Springs
- Contact:
That is great info
1984 RX-7 GSL-SE [size=84]My restomod project[/SIZE]
1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL flat black w/ white interior, 2 dr fastback, 390 thunderbird, C6 auto, 2500 rpm high stall converter, shift kit, AC, Holley 750 cfm
[size=100]RIP 1983 RX-7[/SIZE]
My Car Blog
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Chris Swearingen
- Member
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:14
- Contact:
I don't know much about the stock 323 ecu, so I don't know if a piggyback is going to get you past the stock fuel/boost cut or not.
I did run a eManage Ultimate on my supercharged miata for a number of years and liked it quite a bit. I could both add and remove fuel as well as convert from an AFM to MAP. I didn't obviously have any boost control to deal with on the supercharger so I can't speak to how well that would have worked.
I have moved on to a Megasquirt-II standalone and have really appreciated how much it lets me do. Of course what it "lets" you do is everything, so make sure you want to be responsible for all that if you go standalone. I got mine from http://www.diyautotune.com/ Given how similar the 323 motor is to the miata one, there may be enough commonality in the sensors/wiring that a plug and play miata unit might work for you as well.
Just my $.02, keep the change.
I did run a eManage Ultimate on my supercharged miata for a number of years and liked it quite a bit. I could both add and remove fuel as well as convert from an AFM to MAP. I didn't obviously have any boost control to deal with on the supercharger so I can't speak to how well that would have worked.
I have moved on to a Megasquirt-II standalone and have really appreciated how much it lets me do. Of course what it "lets" you do is everything, so make sure you want to be responsible for all that if you go standalone. I got mine from http://www.diyautotune.com/ Given how similar the 323 motor is to the miata one, there may be enough commonality in the sensors/wiring that a plug and play miata unit might work for you as well.
Just my $.02, keep the change.
--Chris
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chickenwafer
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14
- Location: Greeley
The MegaSquirt is a GREAT option for those who prefer a Linux-style DIY option. I personally just like the ease of use/support/"mainstream-ness" of other popular EMS options.
With the age of the 323 ECU I think a piggyback could easily overcome most of the stock ECU fueling schemes and defenders. Those old PCMs are OBD-1 or even older and don't learn around tunes, either, which is why piggybacks suck on OBD-II vehicles, especially cars made in 2000 or newer.
Essentially these new car PCMs are so smart they can see the tune is being altered despite any kind of trickery and "learn around" the changes, reverting to stock ignition and fueling schemes which can be VERY bad, especially if you boost a factory naturally aspirated engine. If you're doing a modest tune to a factory NA car or factory turbo car it will typically just make your car a slug.
That was one of the biggest issues early on with the RX-8. The E-Manage Blue piggyback was the only EMS being used for the 8 due to it's PnP harness but the RX-8's ECU is so smart it "knew" it was being tricked by the E-Manage and eventually learned around the tunes. You could make small changes in Open Loop (OL) and get it past the ECU but not much, especially with the somewhat aggressive timing the factory RX-8 runs (for a factory car).
Honestly if you can afford it a standalone it is the best option. Since your not OBD-II your gauges, odometer, A/C, other stuff won't be effected by removing the factory ECU.
With the age of the 323 ECU I think a piggyback could easily overcome most of the stock ECU fueling schemes and defenders. Those old PCMs are OBD-1 or even older and don't learn around tunes, either, which is why piggybacks suck on OBD-II vehicles, especially cars made in 2000 or newer.
Essentially these new car PCMs are so smart they can see the tune is being altered despite any kind of trickery and "learn around" the changes, reverting to stock ignition and fueling schemes which can be VERY bad, especially if you boost a factory naturally aspirated engine. If you're doing a modest tune to a factory NA car or factory turbo car it will typically just make your car a slug.
That was one of the biggest issues early on with the RX-8. The E-Manage Blue piggyback was the only EMS being used for the 8 due to it's PnP harness but the RX-8's ECU is so smart it "knew" it was being tricked by the E-Manage and eventually learned around the tunes. You could make small changes in Open Loop (OL) and get it past the ECU but not much, especially with the somewhat aggressive timing the factory RX-8 runs (for a factory car).
Honestly if you can afford it a standalone it is the best option. Since your not OBD-II your gauges, odometer, A/C, other stuff won't be effected by removing the factory ECU.
there isnt a chip available that will let you bypass boost cut?
i made 298whp on a fmu, 460 injectors, and a boost cut chip on my 91. it ran just fine up to 18psi. i just had to tune it with a bleeder and a wideband
x2 on megasquirt though. before i tore my old setup out, i was running ms1 with hi res code, 880s, no IAC and it idled pretty damn good, and easily made over 300whp daily
the info is out there, and getting an older mazda to run on MS is pretty straight forward. the hardest part is figuring out how to get a good rpm signal to the MS, which im sure has been documented on the net somewhere. you can build the MS, break down the wiring diagram, create a plug and play harness, and you can switch back and forth for emissions. its a GOOD cheap route to having full standalone, for only ~250 bucks all said and done. you learn a lot about efi in the process
i made 298whp on a fmu, 460 injectors, and a boost cut chip on my 91. it ran just fine up to 18psi. i just had to tune it with a bleeder and a wideband
x2 on megasquirt though. before i tore my old setup out, i was running ms1 with hi res code, 880s, no IAC and it idled pretty damn good, and easily made over 300whp daily
the info is out there, and getting an older mazda to run on MS is pretty straight forward. the hardest part is figuring out how to get a good rpm signal to the MS, which im sure has been documented on the net somewhere. you can build the MS, break down the wiring diagram, create a plug and play harness, and you can switch back and forth for emissions. its a GOOD cheap route to having full standalone, for only ~250 bucks all said and done. you learn a lot about efi in the process
91 MX6 GT - SHO swap on backburner
02 Maxima GLE - daily
02 Maxima GLE - daily
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