At sea level, the newer "306bhp" 350Z's are quick...

[MazdaTom]

A 240Z is a good choice, but I think the popular vote across the country and the world goes to the Miata. The track days I've been to, there are more Miatas than any other type of car. Corvettes are a close second.

[arctic_blue83]

Yeah, I'm not sure what they call it now, but back in the day (2003 lol), I used to think the best bang for buck Z was the Enthusiast, as it wasn't much more cash than the base, but was the lowest model than came with a LSD. My Z was a Touring, so it had leather, Bose, 18" wheels, heated seats ect ect... but if I was going to buy another Z, I think I would have bought an Enthusiast... partially because I realized I really don't like leather lol. Or at least not in my Z, black car, with black leather interior, it was too much in the summer for me, I prefer the mesh style cloth, it also helps you stick to the seat while cornering... that's just me though, to each their own.

See, now this is where everyone is different.... you own an EVO and now a Z... I owned a WRX, a Z and now an STI.... if I could do it all over again, would I have bought a WRX or a Z? No. I would have just bought an STI to begin with. Now, the Z had the "cool" factor, and can make you feel like a P-I-M-P when driving around, with all the looks it gets, and the fact that it looks like a much more expensive car than it really is.... but, fun factor goes to the STI, hands down.

My Z was fun to drive, but not as much fun as the STI. It's fun getting the tail end out in the Z, correcting your line, and easing on the throttle coming out of a corner.... but to me, it's not nearly as fun as getting the tail out on the STI (MUCH easier to do than you think, these cars have a lot of lift throttle oversteer lol), and powering out of it, using the throttle to tighten the car's line. Both handle great, but I prefer the handling characteristics of the STI... and it's massive grip. It's a LOT of fun! I drove a few EVO's, and while they handle great, I never had as much fun driving them, they don't have the same lift throttle oversteer as the STI, they have telepathic steering (not as numb as the STI), but not nearly the mid-range torque that I love so much... the STI is the king of 4-wheel power-sliding lol, or at least it was before '08, as they changed it's inverted rear strut over to a double-wishbone, giving it more camber gain in the rear, which equals more rear grip... more rear grip equals harder to get the rear end to slide it, decreasing it's fun factor. Probably a better design with the proper spring/dampening rates, but not as much fun.

Robert.... you're an enthusiast for sure, but I think you're crazy lol. You have a stupid fast TT Z, and yet you're wanting to build a monster NA Z as well? Don't get me wrong, at sea level, I prefer the throttle response of an NA car, but still... I don't know, I couldn't see myself buying 2 of the same cars, when there's so many other fun cars out there... I love my STI, but wouldn't buy a 2nd one just to go a "different route" on... although I have considered buying an older Miata, and swapping in a 5.0 V8... or an FD for an LS1 swap.... or even an older GC Impreza 2.5RS for a WRX/STI swap... or another MR2 turbo, as that's the only car I've previously owned that I miss badly to this day.... but not another STI, I like too many cars, so if I was going to buy a 2nd "track car", I would get something different, just so I could switch it up

[Robert_K]

The track N/A built Z is more just a "told you it can be done and produce awesome drag and lap times" for the Z owners that swear F/I is the only way to go. It honestly upset me when My350Z members bash someone for wanting to stay N/A.

There are several cars I'd love to own though if I had the cash. For some reason I'm really getting interested in Porsche and the GT3. But I don't have $130k. The ZO6 C6 is a favorite and the new 430 Scuderia. Again... Money not coming in like that. I guess since I own a F/I car I just want to go total oppisite and own a lightweight N/A car. I think the Evo, WRX, STi and tuner magazine have push turbo aps too much and we are forgetting that a 1600lbs Civic making 200whp N/A is nothing to blow off.

[RX-7 Chris]

I know where you're comming from. On RX-7Club Everyone says you must go turbo. I'm working twards 180-200whp in a car that is 2300lb.

[arctic_blue83]

I like NA cars, I prefer their throttle response, and have a massive amount of respect for people who build up fast NA cars, especially in the "import world" as NA builds seem to be more common among American V8's.... although, these days, OEM's are getting better and better about squeezing every last drop of performance out of NA motors, which I'm not complaining about, but there's not much left on the table these days in NA trim.

I would love to rock an older Miata, and keep it NA, but the amount of money that it would involve just to make a mild 225hp is ridiculous in NA trim with the stock motor.... which is why I would rather spend a similar amount of cash just opting for the Ford 5.0 V8 swap instead, as I'm sure it would cost just as much money to build up Mazda's little 1.6/1.8L motor as it would for the swap. We're talking stroking it out, replacing pistons, rods, crank, bearings, balancing everything, porting the shit out of the head, running cams with ridiculous amounts of lift/duration, to the point where it wouldn't idle right lol, raising the compression to the point where you might not be able to run pump gas without detonating, get a great flowing tubular header, run full individual throttle bodies (which, I do LOVE the sound of ITB's!), and I'm sure you would have to pick up a full standalone EM system in order to actually tune the car to the parameters you would want.... after all of that, you *might* squeeze out the same power as a 5.0L V8 does stock, but I would bet the V8 swap would be easier, cheaper, have WAY more torque, and most importantly, be more reliable.

There's no replacement for displacement lol. Motor swaps FTW!!

When I had my Z, I dreamed of doing a full NA build... but, it was only a dream, as I don't have pockets as deep as Robert's For most people, forced induction is just cheaper, so it's more common. On a Z, you can spend $10-15k doing a full NA build, and in the end, you still probably won't make the same power as a LS2 powered GTO does stock... but, you can spend the same cash on a turbo setup, and murder just about any GTO (that's not highly modded) that gets in your way, which is why I think more people opt for the FI route, you just get more bang for your buck. Another route, that I love and admire, is just swapping in a bigger motor lol. LS-series motor swaps are becoming popular these days, which I think it's great! You get more low-end torque than you would in a turbo car, better throttle response, and it's easier to get power out of a larger motor for future upgrades... just curious, has anyone swapped an LS1/2/3/7 into a 350Z yet? That would be the route I would rather take, especially considering the low center of gravity and weight of the LS motor, you wouldn't really gain any weight, it would sit low in the engine bay, have a GREAT sounding exhaust IMO, you could stay NA and still have a TON of power, and would have more room to upgrade in the future. That's just me though, I'm a little odd lol.

[Robert_K]

There is one owner that has done a LS swap in a 350Z. I honestly don't think its the brightest or best idea for the 350Z. But he has done it and mad props cause of all the custom work. I don't know much more as I don't have any interest. I think the VQ35 is a much better motor for the 350Z than a LS.

And yes the power-to-dollar ratio is better for F/I vs. N/A for the 350Z it not always better. Remember the VQ35 wasn't built for F/I. So more problems can arise. As with any build there are pluses and minus. My main reason for going TT is the power gains. However I didn't opt for the largest turbo kit that the VQ could handle w/o being built. I wanted the smaller turbos for instant torque down low w/o lag. My dyno sheet has been compared to S/C aps but with considerable more top-end and the possibly of 700whp. Again I think forums and magazines have turn what we love into one-upping and bragging rights. Rather than truely supporting and understanding one's goals. I've been given some crap for going with the JWT 700 kit w/o building my motor. But my goal wasn't 500, 600, 700whp. My goal was 250whp @ 2500rpm, which I surpassed. lol Also I wanted something that had great mid-range power delivery. The Z is my daily so I want usable power. I'm not doing 150+ mph runs. I want power ready in 6th gear to go from 75 (3000rpm) to 100 mph as quick as possible. I also road race so low-end and mid-range power were my concerns. Last I remember no drive in 5th or 6th gear at 6k+ rpms. To be honest anything over 500whp is just bragging rights.

[arctic_blue83]

I don't know about the LS motor not being a good motor for the Z... it think it would be a great fit. If you want to keep plenty of low-mid range torque for road racing, the LS is perfect. It's got a broad powerband, it's NA, so better throttle response, and probably weighs close to the same weight... I actually wouldn't be surprised if the LS weighed less than the VQ35, due to the fact that it runs a simple "cam-in-block" (pushrod) design, compared to the VQ's much taller (read:heavier) DOHC 4V design.... and in terms of reliability on the track, I would rather have a stock/mildly tuned 400hp LS2 over a fully built VQ, mostly due to the fact that the 6.0L LS2 would be under much less stress than a VQ tuned within an inch of it's life... I can't think of one reason why the LS wouldn't suit the Z... maybe the chassis couldn't handle the extra torque? But if that were the case, there are a ton of FI Z's out there (like yours), that are making more torque than an LS2... you're right there's pros and cons to everything, but I can see a lot of pros about swapping an LS motor into a Z rather than spending a ton of cash building the VQ for high HP NA, the only real con I can think of is engine management, trying to get everything to play nice.

I think the route you took was a good idea Robert, very well thought out. You spent cash wisely, and I'm glad you got the desired effect... but as for the NA Z, if I had the cash, and wanted to build an NA Z, rather than spending $10-15k on build what would be maybe a 380bhp motor, I would rather just swap in an LS1/2 and make the same power (more torque) without having to worry about tolerances within the block, or 2000rpm idle, or needing race gas ect. That's just me though, to each their own.

[MS3_Mafia]

Lots of great info Brandon and Robert! I wasn't trying to start a Mazda vs. Nissan battle... Lol Personally, the Mazdaspeed3 is the best $23K bang for your buck out there that I get a kick out of driving every day! Believe me I know there is ALWAYS someone faster than you out there. I've had my ass handed to me many a times . For some reason though beause of the way my Speed3 looks I attract lots of attention and Highway challenges to at least be educated in what I can and cannot hang with.