Build thread

[RX-7 Chris]

I think he's already running the RA pump setup so it shouldn't be pulling oil out of the motor at all.

[eliminster]

i know he is premixing but thought he said he still was running the omp also but i could be wrong lol, if he is pre mixing it wouldn't hurt to up the premix a tad and disable the omp just to check that.

[chickenwafer]

Eric is running the Sohn adapter so it pulls oil from a separate source rather than the oil pan (crankcase in piston talk) so his engine oil level wouldn't go down if it was indeed an OMP malfunction.

I would lean towards the turbo being the cause of the smoke, but it's brand new, isn't it? I guess the incorrectly installed oil cooler thermostat could have damaged it by possibly sending pressurized oil in mass quantities up through the drain?

[VRx8]

Hes talking about a lot of oil, rotors have to be leaking oil. I don't think blow by will drain your oil like that, the intercooler would also be filled with oil.

[chickenwafer]

The intercooler wouldn't have to be filled if the thrust seal on the turbine side of the CHRA has been damaged by excessive oil pressure. if his oil thermostat was installed incorrectly (it was) it could have been sending oil in the wrong direction in the front cover and possibly up the oil drain to the turbo, blowing out the thrust seal on the turbine side and thus leaking oil into the turbine and exhaust.

I'm not saying this is the only possibility, but I'm not sure what else it could be. The motor is basically a brand new build with all new parts built by a reputable builder.

[speedjunkie]

First off, I am running the OMP adapter, yes, so it's not that. Furthermore, I don't think the OMP is working anymore anyway because the 2-cycle level barely went down and I was driving practically all day and romping the shit out of it quite a few times. Besides all that, if it was 2-cycle burning, I could smell it because I love the smell of 2-cycle. This is definitely engine oil.

Another way I know it's engine oil burning and not just oil in the exhaust is because the oil level in the pan is actually going down.

Before I deployed, I pulled the old turbo and manifold off and ran the engine with no exhaust whatsoever, and I had no oil or smoke coming out of the engine. The only thing I didn't do at that time was rev it. So I bought a new CHRA and replaced it. It seemed like it wasn't burning oil at first, but then it showed that it definitely was.

I ran that thermostat like that (backwards/incorrect) for several years and didn't have this problem. I think the only problem I was having is that it wasn't actually cooling the oil, although I did have oil in the lines and coolers, so I'm not sure. Maybe it would push oil into the lines but not let it into the engine until it was hot, I'm not sure. That would really suck though haha.

I still think it's the turbine oil seals in the turbo that are bad, and probably on both CHRA's now, which means I dumped so much freakin' money on that just to waste it. ARGH!!! I'll find out for sure within the next few weeks when I get the new turbo on. Rich (the engine builder) said he'd send me an NA header to put on to test out the engine itself if I wanted him to. I might end up doing that. I'll definitely do it if it still burns oil with this new turbo.

One reason I'm thinking more now that it's the turbo is because I've had it clocked at an angle since I put it on, but I only clocked it to a 45* angle within the few months leading up to the new engine. And reading the material on the new turbo, it says that you can clock the turbo but only up to a certain amount. It sounds feasible.

[chickenwafer]

The last thing I would check is how your oil pan ("crankcase") is vented? I know you got that fancy new catch can that bolts up where the OEM seq turbo vacuum tank goes...how is it plumbed? I'm just wondering if there's anyway you're somehow getting boost pressure into the oil pan and pressurizing it, forcing oil in wrong directions. The OEM setup has a hose from the oil filler neck running to a nipple on the bottom of the UIM used for spewing oil into the manifold. There is a check valve in this hose to prevent boost from going into the oil pan, so if you still have this hose, it would be worth inspecting the check valve.

Since you had the oil thermostat installed incorrectly for quite some time, I kind of doubt that's the cause. It was probably just open when the engine was cold, pushing oil through the coolers, and then it shut when it got up to temperature haha. Basically working in reverse of how it should.

[RX-7 Chris]

Would an FC N/A header or mani fit on the car? there probably someone on here with one you can use.

[chickenwafer]

I believe the flange would bolt up to the engine but the end of the header would be in a significantly different location, so it wouldn't easily bolt up to the rest of his exhaust. Or he could just run it open header I guess.

[speedjunkie]

The last thing I would check is how your oil pan ("crankcase") is vented? I know you got that fancy new catch can that bolts up where the OEM seq turbo vacuum tank goes...how is it plumbed? I'm just wondering if there's anyway you're somehow getting boost pressure into the oil pan and pressurizing it, forcing oil in wrong directions. The OEM setup has a hose from the oil filler neck running to a nipple on the bottom of the UIM used for spewing oil into the manifold. There is a check valve in this hose to prevent boost from going into the oil pan, so if you still have this hose, it would be worth inspecting the check valve.

Since you had the oil thermostat installed incorrectly for quite some time, I kind of doubt that's the cause. It was probably just open when the engine was cold, pushing oil through the coolers, and then it shut when it got up to temperature haha. Basically working in reverse of how it should.

The way the tank installs is pretty hard to mess up lol. When I first installed this engine, I installed that hose with check valve you're talking about, and the weird thing is when it started burning oil and smoking was the same run that blew that hose off the UIM and I had a hunting-idle situation. I removed that hose later and just vented it straight to the ground. With this tank, I have a tube that comes up from the rear oil drain (for the stock turbos) and runs to the can, then the other one runs from the normal filler neck location to the can, and the can is vented with a little filter on top.

Would an FC N/A header or mani fit on the car? there probably someone on here with one you can use.

I thought about this before too. I figured it should work because they're both 13Bs.

I believe the flange would bolt up to the engine but the end of the header would be in a significantly different location, so it wouldn't easily bolt up to the rest of his exhaust. Or he could just run it open header I guess.

True. Or I could get an NA FC header and hack off the end and weld on something that will fit my setup, since I'll obviously never be able to fix this. LOL

[speedjunkie]

OK, I'm getting excited now. I will be taking the car to Beauchamp Racing tomorrow night (weather permitting) and pulling the turbo, manifold and DP. Saturday I'm planning on going back over there for at least a little bit to help fab up the manifold, mainly so I can have a hand in it in order to make installation as easy as possible while still getting it built the way I want.

I'm also getting the DP made, and I was thinking about doing 3.5" or 4" for it, just to ease up on the backpressure a bit to assist spool (even though the midpipe back will still be 3"), but Tom is sure I'll be fine with 3" for the DP as well. That helps right now since I'd need to order some more stuff and have to wait for that if I did 3.5" or 4". I have everything I need for the manifold and DP to be built. Now I'm just trying to gather everything else I'll need to make this kit fully functional. I want to be able to sell the 500R kit as an entire/drop-in kit, without the buyer having to find anything to make it work.

I'm also looking at getting an older style GReddy 3-row FMIC for an FD and hacking off parts of the piping/ends in order to make it work for my new IC project. It's only $300 from a guy on fb and it would definitely make the project a lot easier to complete myself.

Right now I need...
-16x1.5 to -10AN fitting for the oil drain for the CHRA oil drain
-14x1.5 to -4AN for oil feed on top of the engine (already have a fitting for this, but I'm looking at one with a built-in washer)
-adapter/fitting to attach to the stock oil drain port on the engine, -10AN for the drain line. This one has been pretty impossible to find so far.
--10AN oil drain line, have to wait to get this made so I can see how long it needs to be and all
-heat shielding for turbo coolant lines (looking at fire sleeve stuff) and possibly for the oil feed line too, not a big priority for that though
-looking at getting some gold foil heat barrier for the firewall, engine mount, LIM, etc. But if I do the LIM, I'll probably do all the other intake piping and manifolds, which will make the black coating pointless lol.
-plugs for the unused injector ports on the LIM. The only ones I've found so far are in Australia, does anyone know of any in the US? I need some that will fit 14mm. I was going to tap the hole and put set screws in, but I think this would be more clean.
-aluminum elbow for the outlet of the turbo. I found one, but there was another one I'd seen before that I like and I can't find it now.
-couplers and IC piping, but I have to wait until I settle on the IC project or not before I get this stuff.
-bung for the water injection injector, so I can have it welded onto the IC piping
-fittings for coolant feed into the CHRA, either banjo fittings (most likely at least on one side) or AN style fittings. I'm worried the banjo fittings won't flow as well, but I might need them since I'll probably be lacking space for AN style fittings.
-some kind of splitters for the vacuum lines going to the wastegates. Also thinking about running ss braided line for all those vacuum lines, but then I'd probably need to change out the vacuum nipples on the UIM and I'm not sure I'm up for that right now lol.

I've also been thinking about doing water cooling for the wastegates. So I'd need some hose or ss braided line for that, along with splitters since I have two WG.

I might be forgetting some things, but I'm pretty sure that's it. I have a -4 oil feed line already, but it looks kinda short. I have to see once the turbo is mounted. I might have that for sale soon haha. I also have a gasket for the T4 flange but I have to find it first, I'm pretty sure I know where it is. I have bungs for the EGT sensors (those will probably be difficult to install)...an O2 sensor bung for the DP...2-bolt 3" flange and v-band flange for the DP...T4 flange, RB exhaust flange and wastegate flanges for the manifold...bolts for the turbo to manifold...coolant hose and clamps...I feel like I'm still missing so much though haha. I'll feel so much at ease once I get this turbo installed so I can cross off the list so much stuff I needed.

I still need to get the new bumper painted, paint the rebar behind it so you can't see yellow through the bumper haha, install some windshield washer nozzles, fix the hood so it sits flat along the fenders (thinking about boiling some towels and lay them on there and put some weight on it), get some hood pins (thinking about having some rotor shaped ones made lol), do an undertray and run ducting from that to the brakes, anti-surge piece for the fuel tank (I really need to upgrade the power for the fuel pumps at some point though), diff brace/cradle from Tweakit, speed bleeders on the brakes, and now I'm looking at maybe doing some RX-8 seats too LOL.

[RX-7 Chris]

the injector plugs from Mazdatrix won't work? http://www.mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm

[VRx8]

Nice list, I was thinking about making my own undertray with sheet metal.

[VRx8]

the injector plugs from Mazdatrix won't work? http://www.mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm

Those are primary plugs,go in the iron itself

[chickenwafer]

I'm also getting the DP made, and I was thinking about doing 3.5" or 4" for it, just to ease up on the backpressure a bit to assist spool (even though the midpipe back will still be 3"), but Tom is sure I'll be fine with 3" for the DP as well. That helps right now since I'd need to order some more stuff and have to wait for that if I did 3.5" or 4". I have everything I need for the manifold and DP to be built. Now I'm just trying to gather everything else I'll need to make this kit fully functional. I want to be able to sell the 500R kit as an entire/drop-in kit, without the buyer having to find anything to make it work.

I would do at least a 3.5" downpipe. It isn't a huge deal that the rest of your exhaust system is 3"...at the exit of the turbine the exhaust gas will be the hottest and therefor the least dense. Towards the end of the downpipe it will have cooled and become more dense, so size isn't as critical. I guarantee a 3.5 or 4" downpipe will improve spool and power.

Right now I need...
-16x1.5 to -10AN fitting for the oil drain for the CHRA oil drain
-14x1.5 to -4AN for oil feed on top of the engine (already have a fitting for this, but I'm looking at one with a built-in washer)

Look on eBay, you can get these fittings in most colors you could ever want for real good prices.

-adapter/fitting to attach to the stock oil drain port on the engine, -10AN for the drain line. This one has been pretty impossible to find so far.

Is this for the rear turbo oil drain in the rear iron? If so, I used THIS and it worked great.

-heat shielding for turbo coolant lines (looking at fire sleeve stuff) and possibly for the oil feed line too, not a big priority for that though

I used the DEI Fire Sleeve and Tape kit and it looks fantastic, using it for the water lines to the wastegate.

-bung for the water injection injector, so I can have it welded onto the IC piping

Here is the product from Snow I was talking about: http://www.snowperformance.net/nozzle-mounting-bung.html

-fittings for coolant feed into the CHRA, either banjo fittings (most likely at least on one side) or AN style fittings. I'm worried the banjo fittings won't flow as well, but I might need them since I'll probably be lacking space for AN style fittings.

I wouldn't worry about flow with banjo fittings, it's not like it's a super critical thing. The coolant isn't going 100mph. Think of it this way, the OEM fittings for the turbo oil and coolant are banjo style, AND the OEM oil cooler fittings are banjo bolts, too.

I've also been thinking about doing water cooling for the wastegates. So I'd need some hose or ss braided line for that, along with splitters since I have two WG.

If you're running TiAL MVR's, they come with -4AN fittings, but they are too small, so you'll need -4AN Female to -6AN male expanders to run a -6AN hose for coolant. Then you can run them in the throttle body coolant circuit. You shouldn't need splitters, just run the wastegates in series, so in one wastegate, out to the other, then back to the coolant return. Keeps cost lower and it's a minimal amount of heat added.

Nice list, I was thinking about making my own undertray with sheet metal.

This is a good idea! I would be down for one similar.