The S2000

SecondGenPAt · Postby **SecondGenPAt** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:14

Shadow, S2K's are double a-arm up front, multi-link rear. Basically a Miata just, you know, for guys. *gives Ecam a questioning look*

Anyways, dick move here, I know, but here is some delicious reading material:
Start here, and read down the list on the left hand side
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets1.html

also motoiq to the rescue
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1424/the-ultimate-guide-to-suspension-and-handling-part-1-wheels-and-tires.aspx

On the topic of strut-bars.
Heim joints allow movement. Not ideal for a brace. The way you are planning will still allow flex, as one tower can rise up in relation to the other. Since they are connected by the bar, they will be pulled together as the bar swings in it's arc, like a control arm moving through it's range

The big key in a strut brace is tying the towers to the firewall to prevent longitudinal flex in that area.
As always, keep in mind weight, size and useability of this brace. If you add adjustable dampers that need to be adjusted from the top, you will have to remove the current brace to make an adjustment.
Have to plug Rogue's Bar. Light, simple, and effective. Allows for damper adjustment as well.
http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/StrutB/RE_RB.html

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:14

enlarging my grip circle...

Prototype 1 failed. The clearance of the top of the strut was inadequate and I do not want to add clearance by removing material or adding height when other solutions are available. I may go to a solid bar design as you suggest PAt, but not sure if I can tie it back to the firewall since the engine is occupying most of that. Now I am thinking about placing a large diameter pipe so that the top of the strut can be accessed through its inner diameter, then just running the strut bar straight across. Similar to the megan bars, but I might see if Ecam will help me mount a tab or something in case I want to add an engine torgue dampener on the pass side and a another brackt for possibly adding a brake master cylinder brace. This type of bar on this car requires that one sides strut be lowered out of the tower due to the angle of the studs. No big deal.

Ecam and I can probably weld the bar in place after making the towers. Simplifies everything (I think). MAterials to buy at least, less welding, probably more strength.

The whiteline brace they used on motoiq works like the one I was looking at making originally for the most part

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

SecondGenPAt wrote:Shadow, S2K's are double a-arm up front, multi-link rear. Basically a Miata just, you know, for guys. *gives Ecam a questioning look*

I was unaware the S2000 had double A arms. Enough of them have been through my garage, that I should be a certified Honda wrench by now.

As far as my masculinity...I bought the Miata before I knew I had issues. And with a house full of women.....

Oh the good ole days.....

SecondGenPAt · Postby **SecondGenPAt** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

No worries, I guess I'll let it slide this time.

Even I'm guilty of driving a Miata and having a blast. Thanks again for that.

The only question remains, when is the Miata receiving a turbo????

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Still digging STR (no turbos). But a friend with a S2000 in B stock, is considering supercharging his Honda and running SSR or something after next year's summer series. When he does, I'll probably turbo the Miata and run some slicks on the 15x9's in the same class. He and I ran our first event in the Miata on some hard rubber and had a blast.

Originally I was going to wait for my 13 year old to start out in the Miata as it sits. My sixteen year old ran the Miata last year but evolved to a highly tweeked S2000 for this year and is doing well. She has been dicing it up with three fast women in the points. She is second in class with one event to go (two points out of first). She has been in first a couple times (dropped to second after the last event a couple weeks ago).

Amanda (16) and I ran the Miata at a invitational (test and tune) and she was a bunch faster than I. In fact she drove others' cars (Shawdow) and tended to be really quick in cars she wasn't familliar with. It has been fun to watch the reactions from grown men, when this 16 year old GIRL goes fast. I met a couple guys early this summer who said they had to beat Amanda to "keep" their man cards. They were driving a Vette (man cards revoked).

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Yep, Amanda hopped in the FWD mazda3 and proceeded to turn better lap times than me even though she normally drives RWD. She took 5 runs I think in it. I had many more and maybe got within a second of her.

I've never said I was a good driver...just better than Tut.

Came up with a modification to my design last night. This bar will still be tension adjustable, but will not have any pivoting points. I'm going to look into supplies today.

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Don't rule out exotic materials, my plasma cuts titanium and gold too!

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Titanium. Can we weld it? Doesn't it need to be cold treated?

Argon shielding, cups, welding box, 800 degrees, straw colored discoloration good, blue bad...you only get one shot...
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-titanium.html

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

I didn't say I could weld it, just that my plasma is able to cut it. Argon, gas cup and preheat I can handle, heated welding chamber for flooded argon, not at this time. Funny you didn't inquire about welding gold...

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

ecam8000 wrote:I didn't say I could weld it, just that my plasma is able to cut it. Argon, gas cup and preheat I can handle, heated welding chamber for flooded argon, not at this time. Funny you didn't inquire about welding gold...

I would want to do solid 24k and it is too malleable. If you had offered up tungsten I might have looked into it more (my wedding ring is titanium. I have an affinity for it stemming from when it was the hot exotic material for bikes).

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

She told you it is Titainium.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

I will have plates for the bases tomorrow. 1/8" mild steel. I am looking into 4130. I'm a little nervous about the distance between the inner diameter of my "vertical pipe" and the wall thickness/outer diameter interfering with the nuts that hold everything in place. Our welding shop guy (big car and motorcycle guy) that I like to deal with sid that building the center bar in three pieces could be tricky to make sure everything lines up. He gave me a process to follow to help.

assemble DOM into each portion of the rod where needed (4). Thread the DOM to the right size (5/8"x18 I think). Cut grade 8 bults and use threaded portion to thread into each side of the center bar. Tack weld in place so it doesn't move. Put two jam nuts on thread and thread support sides to cente bar at distance allowing some thread to show between threads with jam nuts tightened down. Align bar with towers alread in place on car. Tack in place. Remove and complete the welds.

Make sense? Going to try and find some 4130 locally.

Advantages to this plan: No need to drop strut to pull tower, tension adjustable, stiff.

Complicating factor in all of this is some cable running over the strut currently. If we build the vertical tubing low enough, it should go over the top. Determining bend in the tubing coming off the vertical pipe to get it to the right height and horizontal. Can use frame brace a point of reference for bar.

I am still having a hard time figuring out how to tie the 3 piece center rod togethe so everything is nice and centered., Tring to find chromoly DOM, but will probably just use mild steel dom as I can get it from the shop.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Most likely heading to atlas metals to check the rems later. They don't like selling small parts, but I bet they make much more profit on them.

ecam8000 · Postby **ecam8000** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

Why 4130? It is a rated structural tube recipie. Why not simple mild steel? Back to the forces, is 4130 needed? Tube service; 303-321-9200 is where I get my DOM. They may have 4130.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:14

I thought you suggested 4130 at one point. Generally it is lighter than mild steel too from my understanding. Does 4130 create complications? It is certainly more expensive than mild steel.

Edit: reread your post. The chromoly is harder to weld, so probably not a recommendation...it is expensive as you said though.

The S2000

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