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arctic_blue83

Postby arctic_blue83 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX 8 Ghost @ Mar 19 2008, 03:22 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33793]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
What is this FREE Open Source software you speak of?[/b]


A bunch of Subaru tuners/junkies around the country got together, because they were tired of paying Cobb $600-700 for an AP, or ECUtek $600 for a license to use their software, so they cracked the factory ECU codes for pretty much any fairly current turbo Subaru on the market, and created an interface to be able to tune stock ECU parameters... you can download it online for free. All you have to do is buy a $70 Tactrix cable to go from a USB port on a laptop to a car's OBDII port. Pretty cool stuff, companies like PDX ( http://www.pdxtuning.com ) actually have stage 1 & 2 maps you can download for free on their site.

The EVO guys have been doing it for years now, whereas the WRX/STI guys have only been doing it for the past 1-2 years IIRC. I'm sure the same method can apply for most flash based ECU's out there, some of the Subaru guys just happened to be smart enough to crack the codes for Subies, and create a tuning interface. Sites like this made it possible:
http://forums.openecu.org/

Notice there's forum sections there for just about all model Subie's as well as EVO's lol.

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Postby rx8ghost » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

Wow that's awesome. I wish we had something like that! I need to get back into coding!
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Huzer21

Postby Huzer21 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 19 2008, 03:24 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33795]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
I see... well, I should ask, what are your horsepower and/or 1/4 mile goals? Not sure if you're into drag racing, so 1/4 mile might not be applicable for you... if not, what kind of car(s) would you like to be able to keep up with on the straights on a road course?

I imagine staying NA would be easier if you were at sea level.... but rather than adding power for now, have you considered just swapping to a shorter final drive? IMO, for a car with a 9000rpm redline, the 8's gears are way too tall.[/b]


I've thinking about the final drive, and I'm wondering if the 09 rears will be a direct swap for the 04-08 cars. If not, FEED has a 4.77 set (which is what Mazda has put in the 09), but I haven't quoted parts on that for a while. 1/4 mile, I might (big might) run for fun sometime, but that's not what I'm looking for. Of course, I'd love to have a 350hp beast ripping along, but if high hp numbers were my goal, I wouldn't have picked the RX-8 as my project car. As modest as this is (for now), I'm looking at getting somewhere in the 200-210 range for HP (which might be a tall order, considering I'm at 181 right now, with a stage 1 map).

arctic_blue83

Postby arctic_blue83 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX 8 Ghost @ Mar 19 2008, 03:27 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33796]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
I'd love to do that but more I'd love to swap out my drivetrain for something that doesn't lose so much power. Anyone have any ideas?[/b]


You don't have an auto tranny do you? I'm pretty sure you have a manual, and if so, there's not really an affordable tranny that will have lower drivetrain losses.

Keep in mind though, that although your car won't "make" anymore power per se, you can swap out components that won't soak up as much power. A short list of these parts:

1. Pulleys. They aren't transmission/drivetrain related per se, but still rob power from the crank. Lightening them can help... although be wary, as most aftermarket crank pulleys remove harmonic dampeners/balancers that were placed there from the factory... but that's another discussion altogether.

2. Clutch/Flywheel. Less weight typically equals less parasitic loss. Which is why engines rev a good bit faster with lightened flywheels.

3. Lighter driveshaft. Same concept as above.

4. Lighter wheels/tires. If you wheel/tire combo weighs in at 55 lbs per corners, you might be surprised at how much better the car would feel if you strapped on wheels/tires that only weighed let's say 40 lbs per corner.



You probably won't see much power on a dyno swapping out all that stuff, but you'll probably feel it, and see it in your trap speeds in the 1/4 mile. A few years ago, SCC swapped their project 350Z's flywheel, with a lightened flywheel, and ran it in the 1/4.... the ET was about the same, but they gained almost 2mph in trap speed IIRC. Another way to get shorter gearing without actually touching your gears/FD, is to swap over to a smaller diameter tire, that will effectively give you a shorter overall "final drive", without touching the final drive ratio gears in your rear diff.

My thoughts on wheels/tires: Run the shortest & lightest wheels you can fit over your brake calipers, within reason of course. That extra 2 lbs per corner might not justify an extra $1000 in costs, as you probably won't feel it. Also, sometimes sacrificing weight in order to get wider wheels/tires is more than worth it. It's all about balance, if you'll save 3 lbs per corner with 225's over let's say 245's, but you can't hardly hook up, or, your tires are giving out quickly at your local autoX event, you might want to just take the added weight penalty, and run the wider wheels/tires.

For me, my stock BBS wheels are fairly light and forged (strong)... sure there are other wheels out there that are lighter, but I just can't justify an extra $2000+ just to save 2-4 lbs per corner. Especially since my stock wheels are 8" wide, so I can squeeze 245's on them. To me, I just can't justify it.... but, if we were talking about saving 10-15 lbs per corner, like some cars with heavy, gaudy wheels, I might be able to justify it a bit easier. Then again, I'm not rich lol. Find wheels that fit your budget.

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Postby RX-7 Chris » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

I would go with the clutch and flywheel setup first out of that list.
1984 RX-7 GSL-SE [size=84]My restomod project[/SIZE]


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Postby rx8ghost » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

Basically everything I had planned. I do believe I'm going to spend the money on the FEED gears
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Postby MazdaTom » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

Clutch/flywheel.

They work so good, I'm thinking about bolting a lightweight flywheel to my auto just because they are so cool and I want one regardless if I can actually use it or not.
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arctic_blue83

Postby arctic_blue83 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Huzer21 @ Mar 19 2008, 03:42 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33799]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
I've thinking about the final drive, and I'm wondering if the 09 rears will be a direct swap for the 04-08 cars. If not, FEED has a 4.77 set (which is what Mazda has put in the 09), but I haven't quoted parts on that for a while. 1/4 mile, I might (big might) run for fun sometime, but that's not what I'm looking for. Of course, I'd love to have a 350hp beast ripping along, but if high hp numbers were my goal, I wouldn't have picked the RX-8 as my project car. As modest as this is (for now), I'm looking at getting somewhere in the 200-210 range for HP (which might be a tall order, considering I'm at 181 right now, with a stage 1 map).[/b]


IIRC, the current RX-8 has a 4.44 FD, so swapping to a 4.77 is a decent drop IMO.

I posted gearing charts up in a thread for Jimmy a few months ago, to show the difference in what your gearing would look like with stock gears vs 4.77, here's what I came up with:

Stock 4.44 gears:
Image
4.77 gears:
Image

Honestly, the only real negative I can see (aside from slightly lower freeway fuel economy), is that if you were a 1/4 mile junkie, and trapping below 94mph with stock gears, but above 88mph, you would have to shift again at the end of the 1/4 mile, but since you're more about road racing, that shouldn't be much of a factor. I don't know about the '8, but I'm more familiar with Honda S2000's, that have 4.10's stock, and have heard of people swapping over to a 4.77 FD, and dropping their 1/4 mile time around 0.5 seconds and adding a couple mph to their trap speeds.

As far as 200-210whp goes, might be a tall order in NA trim, for a car that doesn't have many restrictions to begin with. Typically in NA trim, it's all about letting the motor breath better... OEM's aren't stupid these days, they really try to squeeze as much power as possible in stock form on most performance NA cars. Has anyone released an aftermarket exhaust manifold/header for the 8? To gain 20-30whp, on a car like that, I'm thinking you're going to have to spend a decent amount of money... I would start with full exhaust, from the header/exhaust manifold all the way back, then have the car Protuned.

Any intake manifolds available for the '8? Does anyone run individual throttle bodies? How much would it cost to port the motor and raise the compression on a rotary?

arctic_blue83

Postby arctic_blue83 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX-7 Chris @ Mar 19 2008, 04:17 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33807]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
I would go with the clutch and flywheel setup first out of that list.[/b]


Right, it wasn't meant to be in any particular order, just the order in which things popped into my head lol. I agree, clutch/flywheel first.

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Postby RX-7 Chris » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

I didn't think it was in order but I thought I would clarify.
1984 RX-7 GSL-SE [size=84]My restomod project[/SIZE]


1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL flat black w/ white interior, 2 dr fastback, 390 thunderbird, C6 auto, 2500 rpm high stall converter, shift kit, AC, Holley 750 cfm

[size=100]RIP 1983 RX-7[/SIZE]

My Car Blog

arctic_blue83

Postby arctic_blue83 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX 8 Ghost @ Mar 19 2008, 04:18 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33808]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Basically everything I had planned. I do believe I'm going to spend the money on the FEED gears[/b]


How much are the FEED gears? You may want to wait, and just pick up a set of OEM 4.77's from the new RX-8... wait for someone to wreck one, and pull the rear diff :D

I also did the math, with stock 4.44's at 65mph in 6th gear, you should be spinning around 3150rpm, whereas with 4.77's, at 65mph in 6th you would be spinning about 3400rpm, so not a huge difference in cruising speed, about 250rpm.

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Postby GR-8 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

I plan on doing the FEED gears some day.... one day....mebe.
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Postby rx8ghost » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 19 2008, 04:33 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33820]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
How much are the FEED gears? You may want to wait, and just pick up a set of OEM 4.77's from the new RX-8... wait for someone to wreck one, and pull the rear diff :D

I also did the math, with stock 4.44's at 65mph in 6th gear, you should be spinning around 3150rpm, whereas with 4.77's, at 65mph in 6th you would be spinning about 3400rpm, so not a huge difference in cruising speed, about 250rpm.[/b]



They're $841 from Japanparts.com. (http://www.japanparts.com/db/partslist.php?dealer=6&car=93&middlesmall=1%3A19&maker=116&volkey=) It won't be till next year that I swap gears so we'll see. I might just go with a Dog Box but we will see.
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Postby Colombia28 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14

Sweet! Congrats Brandon! May i please have a ride *puppy dog eyes* lol
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Huzer21

Postby Huzer21 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 19 2008, 04:23 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=33814]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
As far as 200-210whp goes, might be a tall order in NA trim, for a car that doesn't have many restrictions to begin with. Typically in NA trim, it's all about letting the motor breath better... OEM's aren't stupid these days, they really try to squeeze as much power as possible in stock form on most performance NA cars. Has anyone released an aftermarket exhaust manifold/header for the 8? To gain 20-30whp, on a car like that, I'm thinking you're going to have to spend a decent amount of money... I would start with full exhaust, from the header/exhaust manifold all the way back, then have the car Protuned.

Any intake manifolds available for the '8? Does anyone run individual throttle bodies? How much would it cost to port the motor and raise the compression on a rotary?[/b]


As far as the hp goals, I figured one way that they would probably be very easily attainable: go to MAC! Haha. SActually, the highest HP NA RX-8 I've seen has been 220hp and 144ft-lb on a Mustang dyno. with no internal engine work, and some custom tuning with the Accessport (this was done on another test car). He's running much leaner than me though, with his A/F rarely dropping under 13, and mine barely climbing above. I'm not sure of anyone making intake manifolds for the cars. There are a couple of headers, and Racing Beat should have one in the market sometime this summer.


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