Should I be concerned?

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

Seems like I'm just now learning what everyone else has already known for quite sometime:eek:

...and why I haven't seen anyone speaking of custom tunes for
MS3/MS6:(

Next thing you're going to tell me is that Santa Claus isn't real either...

I was thinking the same thing (regarding getting a group of Speeds together) and requesting a desire for tuning. But me thinkz this would have happened a long time ago.

Damn Subies having all the fun:D

roninsoldier83 · Postby **roninsoldier83** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

Alternately, I'm not sure, but even if you couldn't find a Protuner, you might be able to use this to have someone tune an AP:
http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4214

Cobb AccessTUNER Race looks like tuning software that a professional tuner might be able to use to tune your car. I might look into that.

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

If you can get me the RaceTUNER software for your car I can help you out with a tune. I've tuned my own 8 with the AP, and others, so I'm pretty comfortable with it.

It's odd despite the power and "modablitly" of the Speed3 there isn't nearly the aftermarket support I expected out of it. Cobb has dropped all further development of their AP for the Speed3/6 cars. It's just sad.

I would also recommend a downpipe for the MS3, one from Corksport, Cobb, or TurboXS are good choices. A guy I knew picked up 12-fwhp and over 20 ft-lbs of torque with no tune (!) with an aftermarket downpipe.

I wouldn't worry about water/meth on your car. It's a safe, proven technology since the 1940's and it works great. I swear by the stuff. I have a map for water/meth and other times I use for motor insurance- a safety net.

An E85 swap on the direct injected motors would be tricky. They use a super high psi pump (over 3,000psi right?) and larger injectors aren't available, as well as a higher volume pump. I don't know if the factory fuel system can handle the increase in fuel.

bobopud · Postby **bobopud** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

I believe that the injectors on the MS6 and Ms3 run at arounf 1800 psi, a little less than half that of a diesel engine IIRC.

I fully plan on getting a tune on the AP as soon as Cobb officially releases ATR to the public, it is beta only at this point.

Also, I have talked to MAC and they won't become protuners because there are very few people that hae come to them for tuning and those that have wouldn't even come close to the $12,000 it costs for the protuner license. I think that was the number thrown around, but I am not 100% on it.

Stealth01 · Postby **Stealth01** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

Don't worry, Tut, I'm as lost as you in all this. I'm leaving the MS6 stock (mostly) because A) I am mechanically SPED and would screw something up and

it costs a hella lot of money to do this stuff, and I still have kids on whom I have to spend $$. I spent the years I could have been doing this stuff in Korea, without a car, so it's something I'll probably never truly be able to do.

Oh well. My car still has enough power for me. I have fun with it, and that's what matters.

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14

bobopud wrote:I believe that the injectors on the MS6 and Ms3 run at arounf 1800 psi, a little less than half that of a diesel engine IIRC.

I fully plan on getting a tune on the AP as soon as Cobb officially releases ATR to the public, it is beta only at this point.

Also, I have talked to MAC and they won't become protuners because there are very few people that hae come to them for tuning and those that have wouldn't even come close to the $12,000 it costs for the protuner license. I think that was the number thrown around, but I am not 100% on it.

As far as I know Cobb isn't releasing anything more for the MS3/6. That BETA ATR is it basically.

And the Protuner license isn't that high...much, much less

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

Thanks for the additional replies everyone....and thanks for the offer wafer:)

I've got to think about everything that was said here, lol. But I'm already getting the itch to mess with something else; as conservatively as I can of course...heh.

Was there ever mention of going out to Salt Lake and having Cobb do a custom tune, or did I misunderstand?

mOOsE · Postby **mOOsE** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

you can always use the Cobb website to find tuners as well
http://www.cobbtuning.com/dealers/Default.asp

Here is who they currently list as tuners

Logic Imports AccessTUNER
5757 Arapahoe RdSuite A2Boulder , CO 80303 (303) 579-8866 Phone
www.logicimports.com

MAC Autosport AccessTUNER
6268 E. Pine LaneParker, CO 80138 (303) 841-1176 Phone

Revolutions Performance AccessTUNER
417 E VermijoColorado Springs, CO 80903 (719) 635-6200 Phone
www.revolutionsperformance.com

Super Rupair AccessTUNER
1309 Yarmouth AveBoulder, CO 80304 (888) 442-6508 Phone

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

mOOsE wrote:you can always use the Cobb website to find tuners as well
http://www.cobbtuning.com/dealers/Default.asp

Here is who they currently list as tuners

Logic Imports AccessTUNER
5757 Arapahoe RdSuite A2Boulder , CO 80303 (303) 579-8866 Phone
www.logicimports.com

MAC Autosport AccessTUNER
6268 E. Pine LaneParker, CO 80138 (303) 841-1176 Phone

Revolutions Performance AccessTUNER
417 E VermijoColorado Springs, CO 80903 (719) 635-6200 Phone
www.revolutionsperformance.com

Super Rupair AccessTUNER
1309 Yarmouth AveBoulder, CO 80304 (888) 442-6508 Phone

Thanks for the links Moose. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some variables though. Although these vendors are AccessTUNER's, they don't necessarily correlate to Mazdaspeed? Meaning, it looks like Revolutions and Rupair are Subaru specific. Most of these shops look to specialize in a certain make. Just because they support tuning for Cobb AP, it doesn't mean they can do a custom tune for a speed, right? This is basically the problem that most seem to come across. You can only get generic maps from Cobb... not to mention Cobb stopped Speed R&D:huh:

bobopud · Postby **bobopud** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

For you to get a protune on a Mazda, you need to go to a tuner that has purchased the protuner license and software from Cobb for Mazda specific applications.

I do not beleive that any shops here in Colorado have that capability and I would be surprised if any of them would drop the dough on the license and software for such a small market.

Now, that does not mean that you have to go to Cobb in Salt Lake, Plano, or Oregon. You can download the AccessTuner Race software and have someone complete a tune for you using that software or you can do it yourself using that software.

I would be willing to bet that any tuner experienced with the Cobb AP would be willing to tune yourcar using the AccessTuner Race software.

mOOsE · Postby **mOOsE** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

kingtut wrote:Thanks for the links Moose. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some variables though. Although these vendors are AccessTUNER's, they don't necessarily correlate to Mazdaspeed? Meaning, it looks like Revolutions and Rupair are Subaru specific. Most of these shops look to specialize in a certain make. Just because they support tuning for Cobb AP, it doesn't mean they can do a custom tune for a speed, right? This is basically the problem that most seem to come across. You can only get generic maps from Cobb... not to mention Cobb stopped Speed R&D:huh:

Well, I can't comment 100% but my understanding is that the tuning software is the same. But even if it was not, a good tuner should be able to use different software. The CP-E standback certainly has a very small list of supported tuners but lot's of people have them anyway. The biggest difference is the tolerances with tuning different cars. Can't say for sure which of those tuners has done more mazda's with Accessports. I would guess both MAC and Rupair have though.

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14

bobopud wrote:For you to get a protune on a Mazda, you need to go to a tuner that has purchased the protuner license and software from Cobb for Mazda specific applications. .

That's how I was interpreting it.

bobopud wrote:
I do not beleive that any shops here in Colorado have that capability and I would be surprised if any of them would drop the dough on the license and software for such a small market.

Now, that does not mean that you have to go to Cobb in Salt Lake, Plano, or Oregon. You can download the AccessTuner Race software and have someone complete a tune for you using that software or you can do it yourself using that software.

I would be willing to bet that any tuner experienced with the Cobb AP would be willing to tune yourcar using the AccessTuner Race software.

The TunerRace sounds intriguing, but to be totally honest, I'd be a bit hesitant trusting that the tuner knew what he was doing.

My in-laws live out in Utah; just outside of Salt Lake...so there is a possibility there--if in which that location does such a thing. Where better to get a custom tune, but from the very people who developed/produced the product.

mOOsE wrote: But even if it was not, a good tuner should be able to use different software.

I'm completely NOT a techy, but I was thinking the parameters would be totally different, between say a Speed and a Subie (which is what most of these tuner shops clientele consist of).

mOOsE wrote:
I would guess both MAC and Rupair have though.

That would be cool if MAC was able to do such a thing, and/or had the experience doing it. But it sounds like they don't have the "license" either. In which case, hypothetically, if I were to call them, they'd probably say, "yes, we can do it...bring it in". I'd have to call BS.

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:14

*Update*

I got in touch with Revolutions Performance in the Springs. They say that they can indeed do a custom tune on my Speed. If I buy the AP from them, they'll do it for $200.

What do you guys think?:huh:

roninsoldier83 · Postby **roninsoldier83** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:14

kingtut wrote:*Update*

I got in touch with Revolutions Performance in the Springs. They say that they can indeed do a custom tune on my Speed. If I buy the AP from them, they'll do it for $200.

What do you guys think?:huh:

Ask them if they've tuned MS3's/MS6's using an AP already... also, find out who (which tuner, they have 2 there, one- Adam who usually does Subaru's, and the other I can't remember his name, but really nice guy) would be tuning your car. One of the guys there just answers the phone, doesn't actually tune, might just think them being Protuners enables them to tune any AP. I would get clarification from the actual person that would be tuning your car, inform them you were under the impression they needed a specific Mazda license.

However, they might already have one... I know when the AP came out for the RX-8, Revolutions Performance was supposed to be the guinea pig shop to test it, so maybe they have some agreement with Cobb?!? Either way, talk to the actual tuner and see if you can get some clarification.

I will say this, Adam (owner & primary tuner) isn't the friendliest guy on earth (or at least he wasn't to me), however he is a professional, and is fairly good at what he does. Very smart guy, comes off a little condescending, but has probably tuned 1000's of cars, knows what he's doing. FWIW.

kingtut · Postby **kingtut** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:14

roninsoldier83 wrote:Ask them if they've tuned MS3's/MS6's using an AP already... also, find out who (which tuner, they have 2 there, one- Adam who usually does Subaru's, and the other I can't remember his name, but really nice guy) would be tuning your car. One of the guys there just answers the phone, doesn't actually tune, might just think them being Protuners enables them to tune any AP. I would get clarification from the actual person that would be tuning your car, inform them you were under the impression they needed a specific Mazda license.

However, they might already have one... I know when the AP came out for the RX-8, Revolutions Performance was supposed to be the guinea pig shop to test it, so maybe they have some agreement with Cobb?!? Either way, talk to the actual tuner and see if you can get some clarification.

I will say this, Adam (owner & primary tuner) isn't the friendliest guy on earth (or at least he wasn't to me), however he is a professional, and is fairly good at what he does. Very smart guy, comes off a little condescending, but has probably tuned 1000's of cars, knows what he's doing. FWIW.

Thanks for the info B. Yeah, it was Adam that got back to me (via email). His exact response was, "Yes, we can do a custom tune on that vehicle for you".

I sent him the following questions; still waiting for a response back:
1.) Why was I under the impression that no one was able to do a custom tune on a Mazdaspeed?
2.) Have you done many pro tunes for Mazdaspeed's?
3.) Can you work me a price / package deal on a Cobb FMIC (including install), Cobb AP, and custom tune?

Should I be concerned?

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